May 26, 2021

Social Wisdom EP #3: Michael Dudley released!

Hello everybody, how are we today? Today Social Wisdom EP #3: Michael Dudley Part 2 released! In this very special episode we conclude by discuss the concept of becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable. Sometimes in life it is way too easy to close ourselves off and end up going through the motions.

Hear the story about how Michael transitioned from a corporate sales job to a start up in the healthcare industry after having a realization that he was not doing what brought him joy and satisfaction in life. Sometimes it is NOT about the money, and finding your passion is the key. Listen to his other advice regarding sales, AB testing and growth mindset!

Check out new episodes every single Wednesday. Remember that we are always looking for guests. Send us an email at if you would be interested to share your wisdom, you never know who will resonate with your journey. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Listen Social Wisdom EP #2: Michael Dudley released

Social Wisdom Episode #3: Michael Dudley Part 2
Social Wisdom Episode #3: Michael Dudley Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hola from Chaminger. My name is Fabian Chagoya and I’m your host of Social Wisdom. How do you know what to work on to improve? By being exposed to what is actually possible or obtainable. A major goldmine of untapped knowledge and experience is learning from others, Social Wisdom. Be a sponge, save yourself countless lessons and years of figuring it out the hard way by absorbing it firsthand from others. And here we go.

Welcome back to Social Wisdom by Chaminger. Thank you for joining us as we continue our journey to gain insight from others, since this is a multi-part episode. If you have not watched the previous segment, we highly recommend it for context, but feel free to continue and experience the valuable wisdom that is to be gained from this episode. You are the reason we do this. Enjoy today’s Social Wisdom. 

Today on Social Wisdom, we discuss getting comfortable with the uncomfortable with Michael Dudley.

Michael: Yeah, one other thing, as you were talking about that, maybe it’s just this, I think this generation in general, it does so many things to keep themselves comfortable. I mean, if you think about like half the things that are bought and sold, are just like pillows that just are a little bit more contorting to the head, or everything’s just a little bit more comfortable than that last thing that was already there. I feel like everyone’s keeping themselves boxed in. I, I think people are afraid to fail and I get that part, that’s very natural. 

But I also think, and this might be, I just thought of this and I hadn’t reviewed it with you. So hopefully you don’t mind me going this direction, but I think people take themselves too seriously. I’m pretty self-deprecate, I don’t take myself too seriously. Like I said, I know more things that don’t work than, than work. And I think if you’re willing to put yourself out there and willing to reveal yourself. Like you, jeez, in the first four minutes of being on this podcast. I talked about, you know, me going through a depression. You have to be willing to be yourself and be transparent. I think whether you’re in sales, people appreciate that. People don’t want the Facebook version where you’re just only posting or Instagram version of yourself where you’re only posting the highlight. 

If you think about any hero that we’ve, um, that we’re drawn to, they go through a point where, some type of low. They go through some valley where they learn something about themselves and then like the Phoenix, they rise. But we were with them in those low moments. And I think you have to sometimes be willing to take people through the low in order to take them to the high. 

You know, in sales, I always have to, I’m always willing to just say, Hey, this company that I’m at is not the best at this. And when I say that, then they’re like, okay, so all the things that he’s telling me that they’re good at, it’s true because he’s, he’s now, there’s some kind of like good and bad. He’s not just telling me all the great things that this company does and just shoving a bunch of sales jargon at me. Um, he’s being, he’s being transparent. He’s lowering his guard. 

I’ve been known, over the years, as a good closer, and I think the only reason that I’ve been good at that is because, whether it’s at the negotiation table or at closing, that person, that prospect is always on my side of the table. I’m always like their advocate. And I’m saying, Hey, I’m going to talk to my leadership about getting you this discount. I know what they’re going to ask me though, they’re going to ask us this. What are you want our response to be? I’m on your side of the desk. Like, let’s get this done. I want this done, you want this done, it’s that empathy. 

I mean, just the worst thing you can do in negotiation is tell somebody that you’re good at negotiating, because then they’re gonna be all right. Now, I’m going to screw you over just for absolutely no reason other than to show you, you’re not good at negotiating. Where if you come and just be like, Hey, can you help me out here? I’m trying to get this and trying to get that, I think we could use this on our side of the deal, Mr. and Mrs. Prospect. I think that type of empathy goes a long way and that also translates to life. 

I even have a hard time, you know, even being on a podcast where I’m giving advice, because I don’t want to be that guy who’s just like, you got to do it this way, gotta do it this way. I’m not that guy. I’m the guy who’s just like you. I’ve been there, I’ve done that. I just have, I’ve learned a couple things I want to be able to pass along. So hopefully somebody doesn’t have to go through the same mistakes as me, but I think ultimately you can’t take yourself too seriously. Um, or, or else everyone will want to shut you down. Everyone will want you to fail because they hadn’t seen you fail. Even though you’ve already failed behind closed doors.

Fabian: I love that. There really is something to be said about people taking themselves too seriously. I mean, once you’re able to laugh at yourself and just relax, I mean, everyone makes mistakes, everyone. And this was something that really kind of started turning me off towards these big corporate jobs and these non startups and stuff like that, was the fact that everyone took themselves so seriously. Yes, there’s something to be said about professionalism. I love it. I think it’s amazing because you get things done and you have a certain quality that you can expect. But once it got to the point where it’s like, well, I can’t tell the customer this, or I can’t say this, well why? You guys are all thinking this, why do we have to pretend that we’re saying something else or thinking something else? 

And I know I rattled a lot of feathers during my time there because I always embrace the approach of just brutal honesty. If a customer is like, well, what happened here? Why did this happen? Well, you know, our project management just completely dropped the ball here, but we’re going to find a way to make this work. So what do we need? I’m going to go talk to them, I’m on your side. When I was doing that, like I really was on their side because I’m like, you know what? You guys need this. Like, they absolutely need this product. You need this help, you really are like struggling a little bit to pay for things, but you’ll need that ramp up of money after three months of having this success with this product, so let’s do it. Like what can you afford? What can we do? Let me go fight for you up there. 

I know that sometimes the leadership and certain bosses were like, well, you should be more on our side. You should be trying to get more money and make the deal worth more so a, we make more, why are you helping them? And it was always like a struggle because then you have to be better about pitching it to your own bosses so that they don’t realize that. But to me, it was just like, I wasn’t afraid of that brutal honesty of saying what it is, like good or bad. And like you said, I feel like people appreciate that vulnerability and it’s hard, it really is. 

Like you said, the social media, like the Facebook, the Instagram, the highlight reel. People are so used to that part. All of a sudden you like show like, well, you know what? I got laid off last month and I haven’t found a job. I just got turned down by three jobs and you know, now I’m feeling a little depressed. Obviously don’t have to share everything. There’s some benefit to, you know, keeping the mystery alive and being private. But people really resonate with that because they’re like, Oh, this guy who I thought has everything figured out is actually a normal human being until he rises like a Phoenix. 

Which by the way, I love that analogy. I think there really is something to be said about that. I feel like that a lot of times, being underestimated, I actually like it. Um, I don’t know how you feel about that, but it’s kinda cool to be like, no one would expect this from you. Like they all think you’re going to do this and then you just come out.

Kind of curious before we move to the next part about talking about like your vision and the idea of success, but going to more of this startup. I’m sure some people are going to be like, Hey, well, why are you doing that? Why would you do that? Why would you give up like these insane corporations and potential? Do you almost feel like that’s you rising up and it’s like, Hey, this is what I want to do. This is who I really was. But you guys just never really understood or tell me more about that.

Michael: Yeah, so a couple of things. Um, one from a starter perspective, I’ve always been, you know, one of the top reps. And so for me, it was always good to be in a large sales field because I knew they would appreciate where I was. So, you know, being the, the top rep at a two rep company, isn’t as meaningful as a top rep at a 15 rep company. So I, I’ve been focused in on that in the past. 

One of the things that I would highly recommend if you do have a conversation with a recruiter or looking into some type of sales role, find one where you can earn equity. From that perspective, like the commission is good in the short-term, but none of it’s life changing. I think equity and being able to build a business, um, it’s like, it’s okay if your rep one out of two and you’re building a company that goes public and later on you’re rep one of 15, that’s, that’s awesome. That’s way better than doing anything else. What I’m looking forward to the most is that every sale is going to be extremely impactful for the entire business, in like a 20, 30 employee company, like you make a sale, everyone knows about it. Everyone’s celebrating, everyone is excited because you’re creating different bottlenecks in different sides of the business. And they’re like, they get pumped about it. And I think that’s very different than in a corporate job where you hit your number one month and it’s like, cool, two months later, it’s like, what have you closed here lately?

So, from that perspective, there’s a different aspect there and there’s also different culture too. Knowing that you’re a part of something that you’re literally like lifting up off the ground. I’m really looking forward to getting more involved with them and especially the industry that we are, where we’re really providing true care to patients and making an impact on patient’s lives. Like that, it’s going to be so exciting cause we’re all doing it together and I think that’s very different. Being on the corporate side, selling healthcare technology, you always had the sales versus professional services. I can’t believe you sold ’em this and like, it, it just it’s it’s way different. 

One of the reasons I made this, this role change is to be in a role where I can, when I make sales, I’m making a major difference in the lives of customers, in the lives of patients that these practices are serving, but then also make a huge impact in the company I’m working for. And then hopefully making a huge impact on my family. When that equity, you know, gets to a certain amount of money. I know we have certain targets and I know what that payout will be and so I’m working my butt off for that one day. I know in the meantime, I’m going to be, uh, reimbursed.

You have to be willing to understand if that’s, if that’s right for your family. I said goodbye to a couple colleagues last week and, and they’re like, I’m just getting out of that window of, of where I’m able to take risk as a family and not everyone’s able to do that. To go to a startup, you have to take one step back to take two steps forward. Thankfully this one, was actually a step forward, um, in order to hopefully take a lot of steps forward, but that’s not always the case. I understand that and so from that perspective, there’s just a major difference there.

I will say, you know, there’s going to be different things that you miss from that corporate life. The one thing that I know that I can’t do going forward is, there’s no hiding in a small company. There’s no like, at my annual year, I can take, you know, a week or two off. It’s like, I was on vacation a couple of weeks ago and I want to hit the ground running. Um, and I know that I’m not going to be able to, to hide, not that I was before, but you know what I’m talking about. In a corporate company, it’s so big that, um, sometimes you can get lost in the numbers and that that comes with both pros and cons.

So I hope that gives you a little bit of information about why I made that decision. I mean, ultimately it came down to being at the right place at the right time and being aligned with what I’m passionate about. The fact that it’s a small business was just icing on the cake.

Fabian: I love that so much because, you know, I feel like we get ingrained in our mind that we have to keep making more money, more money, and it’s all just about the money. And yeah it’s amazing and you know, there’s a lot of upside with your move. So I think that’s even better, but there’s just something to be said about creating something, creating a legacy. Knowing that your impact was part of the reason. Obviously I don’t know everything about this business that now you’re starting with, but it’s like, Hey, you get a big sale or you get a big customer. Like now they might be able to hire 10 more employees. They might be able to open a new department. They might be able to expand to another city and you are literally affecting so many other people’s lives. And there’s just something to. Be said about that. That is in my opinion, amazing. So I love that so much and I respect that and I really hope that it works out for you because that sounds really cool. 

I want to touch upon one thing that I think is a very misunderstood part about life. And it’s like, what is success? How do you get successful? And obviously that’s part of the thing that I want to explain to people, but I want to kind of change that definition because I think too many people view it as, Oh, that means that I am the CEO of this big corporation. You could argue that that guy is successful, but is he really successful? Like, did he sacrifice everything in his life, now he’s unhappy, he’s depressed. I would argue that that guy truly isn’t successful because what if he just loses his job because something happened at the company and now his head rolls and what does he have, you know? And he destroyed everything else to get there. I think there’s something to be said about us changing our view on success. And I know this is not like completely foreign, a lot of motivational speakers talk about this. But I think that it’s such an important concept because they’re habits and it really is about figuring yourself out, getting the self-esteem that no matter what happens, you’re going to be set up for success.

But I want to hear your take on the Chaminger definition and then I want to hear your opinion on what success means to you. So I have to read it because I always forget my exact wording, but it really is the point of where you feel great with what you have currently accomplish in life. So you’re happy with yourself, you’re happy with your worth, the value that you provide and you don’t need other people’s validation to feel like you’re successful. So that is our definition. Curious to know what your thoughts are on that.

Michael: Yeah, I love, um, I love that mentality. It aligns with what I’ve been talking about all along. I don’t really even think about success, success is like that after that I was talking about. It’s for me, like success was a validation of what I already knew or where the joy that I’ve already found. To give you a perfect example, you know, I was depressed and it’s hard even just like saying it out loud, but I had to take control over it. I couldn’t just say, you know, what, this is what it is like, I’m going to just keep doing this until I’m successful. No, I said, I’m going to take control of what I can control. I’d rather be happy at something that I’m enjoying and mediocre, or like, you know, in the world’s terms versus successful at something that I hate. 

I’ve seen so many executives over the years, like just be at the office until whatever, and they have a divorce and they go through all this. I hang out with them for drinks afterwards, and they’re just not, not all of them, but many of them just aren’t happy. And there are other people that, they’re clocking in, clocking out and then spend as much time as they possibly can with their family. I would almost rather err towards that second option, but I do think that there is an ability where you have to be on when you’re at work and you have to be able to flip it off. I know there’s many times where I have my phone and I know that people have a lot of great tips of, you know, turning off their email, turn off their phone, you know, when they’re at home. I can’t always do that, but sometimes I’m like, I just, I’m not going to respond to any emails until the morning. No deals are going to be signed right now, everything, almost everything can wait until the morning. Now is my time with my family, now is my time to do this and if I can’t enjoy this moment without thinking about all these other things and these clouds over my head, then it’s not even worth being here. 

So another good example, I joined a softball league two years ago. Um, I don’t play softball. I played little league, when I was like a child and I, I started playing softball and I was like in right field and they were like, please, no one hit it towards him. By the end of the year, like I won the MVP of the team just because I brought spirit, I brought energy and I wasn’t the best, but I was, I was bringing it. I ran around the bases for everybody. Cause that was the one thing I knew how to do. I was like, I know how to run, I know how to stop. I’m going to do that on behalf of the team. It’s like those kinds of moments, like where you have to, even if you’re not good at something, you have to try and if you’re passionate about it, people pick up on that. People appreciate that. 

I think the same thing, as you know, with, with life, you have to be able to find that joy. And if you’re at home and you’re not finding joy, you need to find out why there’s no joy there. You know, maybe it is, you know, spouse related, or maybe it is due to your house and your physical home. During the COVID-19, we did a lot of, uh, a lot of things around the house, we actually put a pool into our deck. There was a hot tub platform underneath it. We put a pool for my five-year-old three-year-old to be able to, to splash around in, it’s only like two feet tall. I just was not going to, to live with the fact that I couldn’t go to some neighborhood pool. I was like, I’m going to put pool anywhere I can put a pool, otherwise we’re just having a puddle of water somewhere because, uh, it’s going to too hot to not do something. 

So it’s, it’s those kinds of things where you just, you take control of your life, you find joy where you can. And if people call it success, cool, that’s whatever, you know, it’s icing on the cake, but if you’re happy and you’re finding joy in things, that’s all that matters.

Fabian: I think that’s a perfect way to end it on that note about the success piece. That’s awesome. I love that you take control of the situation. At the end of the day, are you going to do something about it or are you just going to complain? And it’s hard, we talk about it, like, you know, Hey, we got it all figured out, but I know both of us have, like you said it happened to you recently, up and down. So guys, it’s not just immediate, it’s not just always. It’s always a constant fluctuation, but that’s the cool thing about it, you know, find your passion. 

And this leads me to the final thing before we go with our goodbyes and our takeaways is what are your thoughts? I mean, you’ve really touched upon it throughout the entire episode and I love that, but it’s one of the things that I live my entire life, especially basically since I’ve graduated college, I’ve had this mantra of always be improving. So kind of want to know what is your take on that? And do you feel like it’s almost like maybe dangerous when you always want to be changing and growing and improving? Or is it just something that more people should approach?

Michael: My fear is that people will hear that and they’ll say, Yeah, that’s what you want to do. I can’t do that. And they’ll, they’ll think like that is how you’re wired and they’re wired differently and they, they can’t get to that point. And I think that’s up for debate. And I think that you do a good job of, of saying, Hey, I think everyone, everyone can, can improve. So that’s why everything I’ve been talking about has been like, Hey, you don’t always have to improve the way everyone else is telling you and to improve. If you’re going to find joy in something, why wouldn’t you want to improve? Why wouldn’t you want to do things your way? I think we live in a very expressive world where it’s perfectly okay to do things your style, as long as you’re in that lane. You can be all the way to the left or all the way the right, as long as you’re in that lane, you follow the rules to a certain extent.

And that’s why I’ve mentioned, I always, no matter what role I’m in, I always want a manager who gives me creativity to do things my way. And if I’m ever interviewing for somebody and they’re like, Nope, we want you to do it this way, we have this process. You cannot do it your way, you are not allowed any creativity, I’m not going to be a good fit. I have to have structure, I have to have lanes, but I want the liberty to do it my way. 

So, you know, I think from that perspective, I’m with you, I feel like everyone can be in that growth mindset. If you, if you acknowledge that you’re in that static mindset. So for me, I always like thinking like, what does that sound like? So I know I had a friend of the family who just was like, Hey, you know, this is me, you know, you either love it or hate it. Like, this is me, I’m not changing for anybody. I’m like, that’s not like a way that anyone should be living life. But actually it makes my blood boil a little bit when I hear that, because I’m like everyone should be trying to improve and get better at things. If we just have to accept each other as the 14 year old version of ourselves that we thought we figured out, that’s not going to get us anywhere. But if we’re always trying to improve, I think everyone appreciates that. Like that superhero story, people know that, like, you’re not perfect.

And I think that’s also another, another part too, is you have to be willing to, to let your guard down and let people see that other side of you. And if, if so, then, that improvement, people are going to celebrate with you and people are going to be like, yeah, dude, I remember you last year, you were like literally hating life and now you’re doing this, I’m so happy for you. And, and, but they can’t be so happy for you. In fact, they want to tear you down unless they know where you came from. So, um, that would be just my encouragement is that if you’re going to be growing, if you want to be constantly improving, find a way that you can find joy in it and that you can improve and love it and also take people on for the ride.

Fabian: Exactly, I think that’s the key. Like you said that there’s like this misunderstanding in people, like, well, I can’t do that. And it’s because I think people just hear that and they’re like, Oh, it has to be major improvements. Like if I’m 10 pounds overweight, now I have to be like fit. I’m like, no, maybe you just exercise once a week now and before you never exercised. That’s already an improvement, you know? And I think it’s rewiring your mindset and just changing your view on it. Like even small little things are the key and that’s at the end of the day, what brings us to make changes in our lives and grow, because if every day you just do a little change, a little change. I know, I’m sure you can relate, especially considering you were doing fitness related stuff and nutrition, it really is the small things that add up over time. And then eventually once it becomes a habit, it’s easy, but it’s getting to that point.

Michael: Everyone wants the six pack abs, no one wants to actually do the crunches. 

Fabian: Exactly. So with that said, Michael, this has been an amazing talk. Uh, I love everything you’ve had to say, your response to it. I want to shout you out, first of all, for reaching out. I want to hear your take on something that I’ve kind of noticed that, um, it’s, you know, we’re figuring this out as well. This is a new journey, but I feel like a lot of people are paying attention, are watching, are listening, but a lot of people are hesitant to reach out, or to start this journey, or to share their take on it, or maybe it resonated with them, but they might not publicly acknowledge that. And I feel like there’s almost like this fear of showing that like, like you said, that vulnerability, that weakness, like, Hey, I portrayed to the world that I have everything figured out. Yet here I am, I feel pretty darn secure at my job. Like everyone makes me feel inferior, or something. 

So I’m kind of curious, you reached out, you were on this journey to do this new job. You were leaving something that probably most people were like, Oh, Hey, even if this new thing is even more prosperous and successful, like you were leaving something that most people were like, wow, why would you leave that? You have your life set. You took a risk. And I’m curious to know what was the kind of motivated you to, you know, reach out and be inspired to do this. Cause, I mean, did you ever feel like a moment of hesitation when you’re like announcing like this big change and you’re doing something new or was it just easy for you?

Michael: Yeah, I think, you know, like for you, I think I just said, Hey, I man, I love what you’re doing. If you ever need a guest. I do know that there is that person who’s like, Hey, can I be a guest on your show? That wasn’t my intention. My intention was like, I just want you to know, like, you’re doing a good thing. I also know like, it’s hard to create content all the time. So, you know, if you need help with that, I’m happy to help you out. Uh, but I think it’s just another way that I was putting myself out there. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s the part is like, you know, I would often take just calls from recruiters, even if I was happy. Just because, you know, I never want to close a door that hasn’t even been opened yet.

So like, that’s the perspective I like to take is just, same thing with the headphones in the airplane. Just like, I don’t know what’s going to happen. Maybe I don’t want to talk to that person, but I would rather have that option to talk with that person, then not talk with that person. So it’s kind of that mindset where it’s like, you just have to be open-minded and I think that’s the hardest part that I have with COVID is I miss those interactions with people. I miss, like at the gas station, you know, having those interactions and not everyone does. I know I’m an extrovert, I enjoy those things. 

I miss being able to be a manager and being drop-shipped into an opportunity and being able to meet a physician and hear what his problem, I know to a certain extent he’s gonna be feeling one or two, three, or four different pains uh, and I can kind of hone in on that, but I I’m excited. I actually loved walking into and cold calling a private practice and just say, I don’t know, what’s on the other side of the store, but I’ve trained my butt off. I know my talk tracks. I know what I’m going to say. So I’m excited to see which one, which objection he gives me because I want to see their reaction when I give them, you know, the objection handling response that I’ve developed for that. So for me, it was like, I enjoy those interactions with, with other people in life, um, that were pre COVID. And we’ll see what, what happens after, you know, a couple months here. I hope things, I hope people are willing to break that six foot barrier and, and be able to bump shoulders with people. 

One last analogy. I know we’re kind of cutting on time. But, uh, one thing I, I think it was like a Bar Rescue episode or something like that I was watching, but they literally talked about like bars were set up a certain way so that you had these bump areas where like people would, would, would mingle with each other. If it was too wide open people wouldn’t feel like they’re a part of a community. And it’s kind of like, I wish there were more bump areas in life where we could just meet each other and like I said, we, we might’ve said two or three words to each other at this old company before, but I always respected. You sounds like you respected me. So from that perspective, it’s like, we need more interaction with people.

And that’s one of the reasons why I felt, you know, kind of depressed at that point last year. So I think from that perspective, it’s like, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and just say, Hey, I’m going to be a vulnerable. I’m not going to take myself too seriously. I’m going to bump in with other people and we’ll see what happens. Uh, you know, if it’s being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Those are uncomfortable situations. And, uh, I, I thrive for it. So  I really hope that this normal new normal includes more bump areas.

Fabian: I love it. I that’s literally, that was a perfect conclusion to the episode, a great way of tying it all back together. It really is guys, be willing to be uncomfortable. It’s scary at first, but once you try it, it changes everything. I mean, I will end this with an analogy where I think about, like, I became very good at hosting parties and social gatherings because of my parents. They always had the host stuff, because diplomats have to host other diplomats. Like, so the Mexican ambassador would have the American ambassador over, the president of that country and like, you know, we’re hosting like the 30, 40 people. You know, my mom is either catering or making food herself and we have music and all of a sudden my dad is having karaoke going so that people can like mingle together with a shared activity. Like you said, a bump thing. 

And that’s kind of where I, you know tying it back to my Mexican tradition, I had like this thing, like I called it the Mexican cheers. Where like, I’d do a shot with people, or I gather people together and like, do you guys know the Mexican cheers? And like, everyone starts doing it. And there’s a lot of strangers that come together, like I asked them, Hey, come on, do a shot with me. I’m going to teach you the Mexican cheers and if you ever go to Mexico, you can get a free shot if you do this. Because Mexicans love Americans who appreciate their culture. 

So all of a sudden you have like 10, 15, 20 people that have never talked to each other. Maybe they all know me, but now that you’re doing the shot together, we do it. Like everyone’s like yelling because you know, they’re excited. It’s something different. And now all those 10, 20 people feel like they can talk to each other. Because now they have a shared activity they’re like, man, what did you think about that? A Mexican cheers, that was crazy. Huh? Now they feel like they can actually just approach a stranger because before it’s like, Hey, I don’t want to interrupt them, but now they’re able to do that. They did something that maybe made them uncomfortable, but now they feel comfortable and now it completely changed the dynamic of the gathering, the party.

It’s just little things like that. And it really resonated with me what you said about, Hey, like those areas for people to bump into. And it’s kind of crazy how it’s just kind of completely vanished right now with COVID, but I know we’re going back to that and I’m super excited to see that, but I appreciate you so much for everything you said, all the messages  and advice that you had to offer. I think there’s a lot of great things that people can absorb there. I mean, we’ve had some similar experiences, but also completely different ones. So guys make sure you listen to everything Michael has to say, he will not lead you astray, but you know, also remember to forge your own path.

So now is your opportunity to make any shout outs you want to do, talk about anything that you want to share or thank people that you want to thank. So the floor is yours.

Michael: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And you know, if you want to connect on me, you can find me at on LinkedIn, uh, Michael Dudley, D U D L E Y. Um, I’m also launching a YouTube channel where I’m talking about some of the patient success stories that we’re doing. It’s just trying to keep things positive and I think in today’s world, um, we have people constantly bashing each other on social media, just to just a Ray of positivity. So I’ll be doing a lot more to bring you guys in on that future journey on LinkedIn, as well as on YouTube, you can find me @ValueBasedMicheal on YouTube. 

Again, we’re just getting started. Uh, I’m pretty excited about I’m going to be building this brand. And, if you are, if you’re in the healthcare space and you have a provider, if you are working with a practice who, uh, wants to be able to impact lives, I’d love to talk with you more. Again, you can reach me at That’s C O H O R, that is the email address. You can feel free to shoot me an email too. I mean, ultimately, um, I love meeting new people, so don’t, don’t hesitate to reach out. I just love hearing experiences. I mean, I, I’m always attracted to people that come from different backgrounds than me. So to hear like the karaoke and, uh, karaoke is one of those things I’m not good at. That’s one of the secret moments I was telling you about. Hearing that culture aspect of it, I love that. I love that part, I love learning about that. 

So, um, it actually kind of drew up one last point, which is, um, be inquisitive and ask questions. I think at that point in time, if you, if you ask somebody like, well, what was that like? I think people are just naturally going to, or if you ask for help or ask questions, you’re like, Oh my gosh, you just seem curious. People will put you under their wing and they’ll carry you along for their ride.  

So, um, I mean, I just, I just can’t thank you enough for, for hosting this specific podcast and everything that you’re doing. I love the brand. I love what you guys are encouraging people to do. So I would just, uh, thank you guys for for having me and doing what you guys are doing. Uh, and I just, I personally just thank you for having me. Ultimately if, if I get nothing other than just, you know, one person saying that their life, you know, they did one or two, two changes where they, uh, they just took off their headphones in the airplane. One or two things, I am so happy that I spent this time with you.

Fabian: Yeah, well, I view this as I’m definitely going to stay in touch with you. I’m going to be following your journey. I love that it can start new friendships, new connections. I mean, I think it’s so cool, especially, uh, you know, people that are willing to risk to try something new and build something. You know, like I, I’ve never done YouTube before and all this stuff like that. I’m sure you haven’t really either. So it’s so cool to see other people also trying to expand their horizons and build personal brand and professional brand as well. I will always support that. And I know a lot of people are gonna resonate with this. You had some excellent things to share.

I guess I have one last question to you. So I’ve interviewed some people that don’t have a lot of experience that are still very young, because I want to prove to people that so many people feel like they don’t have anything to share. They don’t have any advice. They don’t have any wisdom. And I tell them, that’s not the case at all. Like someone could, you could be 22, 23 and you’ve lived a crazy life, or you’ve figured out something that maybe none of us have realized. Yet, here you are, you’ve worked at some very prestigious companies. You’ve gone through amazing things. You’ve had some lows, but you’ve overcome it and now you’re trying a new journey. I think there’s so much to be said about that. So, uh, what do you feel about, I guess, to, to send us off for Social Wisdom, what is your take on wisdom? Is that something that is age related, experience relate, or does everyone have something to share?

Michael: While you were saying that I, I instantly became very opinionated. I I’m glad you asked that question. So I  appreciate your willingness to just kind of feel the vibe. So as a manager, uh, I, everyone who I had managed up until, I think six months before  everything changed with COVID. Everyone who has managing was older than me. So I was managing people who, like in an age perspective, was older than me. However, uh, I think that my experience with the organization and my drive was the reason I was in that role and they weren’t. I don’t think there were any subordination issues because of it, but the one person I hired that was younger than me, I had to make a decision. I had one, one sales rep candidate that had done an interview and he was a young guy. He actually didn’t speak great English, but he had a drive to. I mean, he had a pure, like positivity that you couldn’t deny. 

And I had two or three other candidates that were really, really well established, uh, that had, you know, accolades, have been top rep and had done everything. But, um, they were also, they felt like they were more uh closed-minded and that they were going to do things their way. I ended up hiring the younger guy because he had that drive. He had that tenacity, he had like a, um, a positivity that I knew that I was going to enjoy managing him and he generally cared about what was going on. And in fact, he’s one of my favorite hires, because he was so genuine and he had, he had an energy that you don’t see very often. So I, you know, I, I hope that I can be like that type of energy and I, I think you definitely are. 

When we run across these types of human beings, that just are, are positive. That’s why when you’re asking me like, what’s the difficulties of COVID? I was like, I want to talk about the positivity first. I don’t want to be known as that guy who’s complaining. I never want to come in and, and, uh, describe a problem without coming with a solution. I never, I always want to be that positive guy, even if the world around us isn’t as positive. I’m going to be transparent. I’m going to tell it like it is. But at the same point in time, at the end of the day, I want to be someone that people want to be around. And I think that is my last, last, last, uh, soapbox moment. It it’s just to be a positive person that people want to be around. And if that’s the case you’re going to be successful at sales are going to be successful at anything you do.

Fabian: Thanks so much, Michael. Well, you guys heard it here, get uncomfortable with the comfortable and you’ll become a rising Phoenix. Chaminger out.

Hey, my fellow Chamingers, thanks so much for experiencing the Social Wisdom of the week. We hope you absorbed as much as you could. Please leave a comment if you learned something or if you have another guest whose wisdom you’d love to hear. If the message is helping you, please remember to check out our Ko-fi donation page so we can also Become Xceptional. Follow our journey on all our social medias and subscribe so you will never miss an opportunity to #BeASponge. Chaminger out.