Author: Chaminger

May 28, 2021

Real Talk Episode #7: Don’t Be Ashamed of Who You Are

Hello my fellow Chamingers. Some updates. Real Talk Episode #7 released today! This is a very personal episode for the host – Fabian Chagoya because he shares about having an identity crisis after realizing what was one of the things holding him back from his full potential. Make sure to listen and read the transcript to our latest episode of this Real Talk discussing why you should always be proud of who you are and if you are not happy, what are you going to do about it. Identify, acknowledge and take small steps to start changing your life!

Also, we just recorded our very first episode of Industry Darksides while live-streaming it! Another exciting milestone, since it is a series that we will be discussing the realities of different jobs and what actually goes on behind the scenes.

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Are you ready to have the real talk with yourself? It is time to listen to someone else continue their self-reflection journey and see if you can relate or do the same things. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Real Talk Episode #6: Reframing your Mindset Part 2
Real Talk Episode #6: Reframing your Mindset Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hey everybody. My name is Fabian Chagoya.

Alejandro: And I’m Alejandro Chagoya.

Fabian: And we’re the hosts of Real Talk, a show all about the journey of self-improvement and getting to know oneself in which we discuss the harsh truths related to finding success. 

So Alejandro, how you doing today?

Alejandro: I’m doing well, Fabian, yourself?

Fabian: Excellent.

Alejandro: Good to hear.

Fabian: It’s always exciting to be able to record these episodes with you and have our weekly talk. So let’s get right into it, the small talk segment. How has it felt for you doing a weekly recording?

Alejandro: You know, it’s a really interesting experience. In some small way, it’s actually something I kind of look forward to. On the one hand, I feel always like, you know, I have to always meet the standard of having a good talk here, between us. But on the other hand, it’s also some, uh, in a way kind of enjoyable just to talk, to catch up.

And then sometimes we end up reflecting on a lot of interesting experiences that we had. Especially in ways that I think neither of us had previously considered. So I think in some way that’s actually rather valuable.

Fabian: Exactly. A few things that I want to say about that. One. Before I get into what you said. For the viewers, obviously you can see some different video format and lighting quality. I’ve addressed this in our daily CC vlog, but experimenting. Same thing with Alejandro, I know he modifies things every episode. 

It’s a journey, it’s progression. And it’s one of the things that I want to really call upon to everyone to focus on if you’re just listening to these episodes. Really realize that sometimes we don’t have everything figured out day one and that’s okay. You keep making improvement changes. And then you look back on where you were 30 days ago, 60 days ago, two years ago, whatever it was.

And you realize how far you’ve come, how much you’ve learned. I mean, there’s so much just with all this recording and lighting and sound and things that we have figured out, Alejandro, and this is only our fourth time doing this. I can’t even imagine where we’re going to be when we’re at like episode 20 or something like that. So, that for me is really exciting. 

Number two, agreed. It’s been such a joy having this opportunity. We didn’t, we were always close, but once we moved apart, we didn’t really stay in touch as much. So this is an opportunity for us to also have a catch-up. Yeah, we’re not necessarily talking about, Oh, what’s happening today in your daily life, but it gives us that opportunity, in a way. We’re really talking about other things like the more meaningful things, the Real Talk, hense the episode. 

So it’s been great. I love this. I definitely look forward to hearing about what’s going on with you and your perspective and my perspective. And I mean, we kind of knew a lot about each other, but I feel like this is where we really get to hear and see a hundred percent what’s going on.

What are your thoughts of that?

Alejandro: Very true, because as we discussed in previous episodes, there’s always the face that we present to the world. That face might depend on according to who we are speaking to, how our relationship with that person. But in a sense then, who we are as a person is still going to be entirely different. Well, maybe not entirely different, but there are going to be certain core aspects that you might not necessarily share with everyone. 

As we’ve also said that sometimes even who we are with ourselves, we’re not entirely honest with who we are. That, uh, certain things we have to face, certain things we maybe think of ourselves that aren’t maybe reflective of the reality. So I think it’s a very big and important opportunity to really reassess these things.

Fabian: Glad to hear that Alejandro. So two things based on that, one, have you felt that imposter syndrome has kicked in? So obviously this is something that you’re not used to doing. It’s not your job. It’s not part of your daily job duties. Yes, you speak to a lot of people working at the consulate, but now really it’s about your voice. It’s about your communication skills. It’s about retelling stories. It’s about reflecting. It’s about sharing valuable information about your past and that’s a very different skill set than maybe you were used to doing. So that piece imposter syndrome. And two, have you felt like one you’ve become more comfortable with this and two that your skills have improved.

Alejandro: All right. Let’s address the first point there about imposter syndrome. Yes, imposter syndrome is definitely a very close friend of mine for the longest time. I certainly felt it, long time in the past, throughout my life regarding our talks that we’ve been doing. Uh, yes, to some extent I can certainly admit that there was always this concern that I had a certain expectation to live up to. That we’d have proper material to discuss, because as viewers might not be aware, Fabian does provide me with a general outlook of what we want to discuss, but much of what we’re talking about isn’t 100% improvised.

Fabian: Hey, pat yourself on the back for that. 

Do you know how rare and difficult that is? I haven’t really mentioned this because I wanted to say it for this kind of moment. Most podcasts or shows or stuff like that are so scripted to the point that they have complete outline of what they’re going to say. And there’s days in advance of preparation, or for example, in sales meetings, most of my coworkers would prepare for a week and know exactly what they were going to say. Or you have a presentation that they’ve practiced 20 times before delivering it. The fact that you can come up with the stuff on the fly is kudos to your skillset, to your honesty, and also the real talk. And that was the whole point of it. The reason why I do that is because I want to make sure that it’s real, but I just want to let you know that that is something you should be proud of because most people would not be able to do that.

Alejandro: I appreciate that a lot, Fabian. Thank you so much. So getting back to my train of thought

I always try to present myself very eloquent, very informed. So, I always want to make sure I meet that standard as much for myself as for you and your viewers, because they deserve to have a proper conversation here with us, an expression of ideas. Sometimes you might see me stumble over my words a bit and get lost in thought. And maybe how I express myself might not always come across in the best manner, but it’s certainly something I’m working on.

I do agree on the second point that I feel like I’ve certainly grown a lot more comfortable engaging in this. I think it’s been a very, very good learning opportunity for me in that way. I mean, certainly it’s not entirely my area of expertise, but I mean more and more for even in work. For example, just the other day, I had to face a bunch of, um, Uh, well, not customers, well, the people who come to visit us there, we had technical issues that delayed for like half an hour. They’re like who should go up and talk to them? It’s like  Alejandro, Alejandro’s the one I should do it. Because I don’t know, I’m like the very personable, very diplomatic face amongst my colleagues. As I discussed afterwards with another coworker, it’s like, yeah, they would eat the rest of us alive. You were obviously the best choice to send forward.

 Fabian: How do you feel about that? That you were kind of like chosen, that they were like, yes, him and that you almost volunteered and that you described yourself as diplomatic. There’s a lot that needs to be discussed about that sentence, but what do you feel about that?

Alejandro: Sure. On one hand, it’s quite a responsibility. I mean, nothing, uh, World-changing compared to maybe some other instances that might exist out there in the world. I mean, apparently the boss checked in with everybody and that was sort of the consensus and he then reached out to me there to face with the crowd on that.

I’m always very willing to go forward and undertake these tasks, um, asked of me. And I mean, on some level, I guess as much as it was a responsibility, it’s certainly also a bit of an honor that the boss also effectively recognized that I would be the best suited for the job here, essentially.

I guess in some way, there’s a bit of pride in that. Especially considering, as we’ve mentioned, not long ago about imposter syndrome. There’s this recognition as well as personal feeling of recognition within myself that certainly I’m suited to handling this task

Fabian: Well, a few things than that, and this is going to be a confidence booster for you. I want you to realize that, for example, in my last company, a medical software company, the people who would do what you did would be either myself, so the representative for three states territory. I was the face of the company for those three states, Kansas, Nebraska, and Colorado. And then later Utah and Wyoming. Or it would be a vice president, or the  president of marketing, or the CEO. 

Those are the people that would address the customers. Doesn’t matter what the customer is, our customers would be addressed by that person. The person that knows the answer, that knows how to get them to feel heard, appreciated and explain the situation in such a way that they accept it. So, I just want you to realize that these are literally the top dogs of a 2000 employee company, or myself, or people that have a similar role as me, that would do it. And you’re doing that exact same thing. I just want you to realize that. Do you see how important and how monumental that is? Your customers come to you. They chose you. 

Think about it in a very primal nature. Go back to the wilderness, the Sahara, the Amazon jungle. And there was like a, a tribe of people and who they chose to represent themselves to deal with strangers that approached them. They chose you, man. That’s how you need to think about it. Like biologically human race wise, if you cut out all  the technology and the fanciness and the developments, they chose you as their representative.

And there’s something to be said about that. I think you need to realize that, and these are the things like I would put in my resume. Or I would use in an interview that like, Oh, Hey, this problem happened. When we had technical difficulties, my boss and my coworkers came to me to not only deliver the message, but smooth it over. That is such a powerful statement and such kudos and credit to not only your ability, your reliability, your trustworthiness, your speaking ability, et cetera, et cetera.

If I were you, I would hone in on that. I’m just trying to make you realize that there’s so many things that you probably do on a daily basis, that you have never rewired yourself to see in a new light. So think about that for a second,

Alejandro: Indeed, indeed.. Oh yeah, no, no kidding

Fabian:  I just wanted to congratulate you in that, that’s impressive, that’s awesome. Let’s move on because otherwise we can spend all episode talking about that. So Alejandro, tell me how the journaling, the positive self-affirmations, the self-reflection has been going. Have you done it? Have you not? Has it been good? Tell me more.

Alejandro: Self reflection, yes. Journaling, uh, I’ll admit, I really need to do it more. I don’t know, sometimes I feel like I put it off because in some ways that’s a way of having to face, uh, to get down on paper and face a lot of these truths. I sometimes I wonder if that’s also, what’s putting me off. That I’m hesitant to-

Fabian: We are doing a lot of that during these real talks. So, I’m not even, I used to journal time. One other thing that I do that I recommend not only to you, but also the viewers is text yourself.  I don’t know how it works in maybe in a Samsung, but in my iPhone, I can text myself. Literally my most texted person is myself. So notes, reminders, uh, things that I want to do, the way I felt for a certain thing, like if a moment happened.  

There’s apps like on the iPhone for notes and stuff like that, but I don’t check those as much. I will check my texts as much. So I’m, I texted myself those things. So then sometimes I journal now through that rather than writing it down. 

I will say that yes, we do a lot of self-reflecting during this episode, but I would just recommend to write down. Even if you don’t journal about the day, or how you felt, or why you felt that way. But if you ever feel really weird, or different, or good, you should write things down. That’s a moment to do so. And if you feel like you don’t want to face it, that’s something you need to focus on because that is exactly the thing that you need to identify, acknowledge, and you need to crush. If you’ve are like, Ooh, I don’t want to face that yet. That’s something that you need to pay attention to. You don’t have to face it right away, but you need to face it eventually.

Alejandro: I do certainly do a number of self-reflections. Since the youngest age, I was always having conversations basically with myself there. Always tending to be in my head and musing, thinking. So, I mean, maybe I don’t necessarily write down what there are certainly a lot of things that I basically end up discussing with myself.

Unfortunately much of that has been, in the past, a lot of the negative self-talk. Which is certainly something I’m am trying to work on, especially as we’ve, we’re engaging here with all this self-improving. And certainly I do read and, and watch videos related to similar topics like we’ve been discussing. So those all get me thinking. So maybe I have to just go ahead and take that final step of then writing stuff down.

One positive thing since we were obviously wanting to focus on that, the other day at work, for example, just had to be a witness for a birth certificate. So we had to do an electronic signature. Now I tend to be fairly meticulous on how I do it and make sure it comes out fine and neat. And obviously, you know, on those electronic pads, not the easiest thing to do a signature. I did it and I remember the lady there was one of the people was being attended to saw and like, Oh, you have a really nice signature.

And I personally never gave it too much thought, but I’m like, Oh, well, thank you. It was a bit of an unexpected compliment, especially since I don’t think my penmanship is all that great; it doesn’t get all that much practice nowadays. As I’m sure many people can attest, but yeah, I thought that was something positive.

Another thing that happened was, um, like we discussed the passions that we had, for example, baking. I tried a new recipe for ginger snaps and I’m like, ah, I’ll bring in some, my colleagues there, to share with them. And it was a really big hit. And especially since it was the first time I tried it out. So I was really pleased with that. And rather pleased that everybody really enjoyed it. So, yeah, that was something nice. I think.

Fabian: I love the fact that someone complimented you on something that you’re not normally used to. It’s weird, for example, when Stephani compliments me on something, it’s amazing, but it’s not the same as like, like someone who just met me complimented me. And I’m like, that makes no sense. They don’t know me even 1% of the level she does. But it’s like, someone else saw that in you, that doesn’t know you, doesn’t see you every day. Does that mean more or matter more? No, it doesn’t. But for some reason we naturally, instinctively think it does because they don’t know us. So if they think that, it must be genuine. No, on the contrary, they’re just basing it off so little information. 

I want to talk about that more in this episode and down the road, we’re going to touch on that piece, but you do have to listen to that. Sometimes it’s funny how, when someone tells you something different, you’re like, Whoa, I never thought about that. It goes to show you how powerful your self narrative is in blocking good things about yourself. 

So I’m glad that that kind of opened your eyes to that. And I will say this man, if someone tells you your baking’s good or your cooking’s good, pay attention to it. Because at the end of the day, we’re very primal. Even though we try to act like we’re not, we love food, we love eating. So someone says this tastes good, pay attention to that. That’s, that’s very genuine.

But let’s move on because otherwise we will be here all day, which there’s nothing wrong with that. 

So I want to talk about not being ashamed of who you are and your interests. And there’s a specific thing that I want to mention, but before we get into that, I want to talk about something that kind of came up, spur of the moment before we started recording this episode, which is the discussion about glasses and bad eyesight.

 I want to tell a brief story to people, I used to have glasses as well.

I had to unofficially wear glasses since essentially the fourth grade. But it was so minor, the prescription, that I didn’t really have to until eighth, ninth grade where my eyesight got to a point where it’s like, you probably need to use it for your school activities, especially if you’re further back in the classroom. I wasn’t happy with it, I didn’t like it. I mean, it was also during that time period at school and in human history, where people kind of frown upon glasses. Like, you got made fun of if you wore glasses, you were the four-eyed monster.

Alejandro: Right. Bullying was a lot more, um, uh, was different back then. Let’s just say that.

Fabian: Yep. You definitely didn’t have people buying glasses to look fashionable in the early 2000’s.

Alejandro: Oh, that’s right.

Fabian: It’s one of the things that I’m definitely trying to convey with the Chaminger brand. It’s, you know, if there’s something that is making you uncomfortable, unhappy, insecure. What are you going to do about it? Are you just going to be okay with living it every single day? Or are you going to try to change it? Even if it’s one step, one foot in front of the other, you know what I mean?

Alejandro: The other,

Fabian: Exactly. You got to make a movement to make a change. And for me, I accepted my glasses look. As I got older, it came to a point where I pretty much needed it full-time. I couldn’t really see faces if people were like, you know, two meters away, it was blurry. Yeah, you’re functional because you can see blobs and shapes. You’re not going to crash into things, because we could still see. But, we couldn’t see detail and is that a really living, when you just can see blobs and blurriness? No. So you start wearing your glasses full time. You accept who you are, you get accustomed to your new image. 

But truly, it wasn’t something that I wanted to be. It wasn’t who I felt I was. So I was never truly happy with it and satisfied with it, but I became comfortable with it. And that’s really important, accepting your situation and your reality is something that I need to mention to everyone. Yes, I got LASIK eventually, but I was okay with it. I didn’t need it. I did not need it, because I accepted who I was and what I had and what my reality was. So I’m kind of curious before I get into the LASIK conversation, how you can relate to that, Alejandro.

Alejandro: I think we had very similar, uh, journey regarding glasses. I was obviously a few years older than Fabian. Uh, so let’s see, I would have gotten glasses, would have been, actually was around the same time. Like I said, I was a few years older than he was. Likewise, I was certainly hesitant to use them too much. Initially since these were, in both our cases, prescriptions for myopia. So we were mainly just for distance, we just use them periodically as needed. And that went on for a number of years until we had to renew our prescription. 

At one point, a number of years later, we were at the ophthalmologist and I remember he told both of us why aren’t we always wearing our glasses. And we were like, well, the previous doctor didn’t say we had to. And he’s like, your vision is so poor. You should be wearing it all the time. I just degenerate over the years, yeah, unfortunately. 

That was certainly something that took  getting used to. I certainly remember for example, taking pictures back in college and removing my glasses for the photo. I mean, sure, you can say even today you might notice there’s a bit of glare from the lighting here for my glasses. Uh, but yeah, it was something that took getting used to for me. I didn’t feel as part of my identity, so I didn’t use it unless I really needed to.

I think one interesting example of that, of acceptance, is if we look at the Miis from Nintendo. I remember on the Wii, my Mii was, was as I am right now. And then, I think later on, I think it was on the 3DS by that point, I finally embraced the glasses look and my Mii character had the glasses all the time then.

So it was certainly a journey of acceptance. I mean, there was all the sort of the stigmas back in that era. Originally, and then having to move on from that and accept it for the practicality and just you are who you are and you live like that. I know in my case, I was supposedly with my astigmatism, I’m not an ideal candidate for say a LASIK operation or something similar. I know Fabian was a strong advocate of maybe looking into it on another time and maybe there’s room for that. I was certainly thinking maybe about looking to contacts, might try that out as well. Although both of us, a bit of reservations regarding a negative experience my dad had with it where he popped them in. And I think he scratched his eye like, Oh, I can’t see. And that really put us off permanently for that for the longest time.

Fabian: Yeah, let’s talk about that. What if the people who had glasses were seen by the human race like everyone else, especially in schools, as the cool kids. The people that you want to be like, everyone wants to wear glasses because then you’re a smart person. You’re the wise guy. You are the leader. I guarantee you people would probably be like trying to stab their eyes, trying to find ways to have to wear glasses. Because let’s say you could only wear glasses if you had bad eyesight. I promise you, people would find ways to ruin their eyesight to wear glasses. But because of that-

Alejandro: Wasn’t that why they kind of adopted the lensless glasses? 

Fabian: Exactly. But it’s crazy to think that just because society at like mid 1990s, early two thousands was like glasses bad. It became this thing and it really influenced us. I remember whenever I put them on like, Ooh. People don’t know me with glasses, like you’re the weirdo with glasses. And I’m like, that’s so sad that I thought that way at that time. And I wish I could go back and punch myself. Like, why? You need this because it’s for health reasons to see well. what if they couldn’t hear well? And we laughed at them for not being able to hear well? It was just one of those things that you look back, it’s horrible, but I cared too much what people thought at the time. 

But the funny thing is that once I had to wear them all the time, it became part of my identity and became part of my look. But like I said, I did it reluctantly and it wasn’t something I was comfortable with. And you get used to it, you can get used to anything. Humans are very good at adapting, believe it or not. As much as humans try to resist, right now during COVID and to adapting to the digital world and this new world that we live in, but we can adapt pretty quickly and adjust. So I had already adapted to this and who I was. But, I felt a lot more comfortable when I wasn’t wearing glasses. That’s who I had originally recognized myself as, and branded myself as and now all of a sudden I’m this glasses dude. 

But there were certain benefits to it, people literally did think I was smarter just because I wore glasses. And you can betcha, I used that for sales. It was crazy, I would walk in with my glasses and people thought this guy knows his shit. I’m like, okay, I’ll take it. I really don’t, but I’ll take it. That’s just humans, you know? 

The great Thanksgiving of 2019, I had this huge self-reflection period. Where I spent basically a full week alone. And just really thinking about who I am, what I do, my problems, my issues, my strengths, my weaknesses. One of the things that I realized and identified it as something that I was uncomfortable with was my glasses, my eyesight, and my look with glasses and I accepted it, but I accepted it begrudgingly. So I identified it, I acknowledged it, and then what can you do about it? You either have to accept it or you change it. And this is something for all issues that anyone has in life. Like any problem you have with yourself or thing that is holding you back, this is how you need to view it.

So I acknowledged it and I’m like, well, what can I do about it? I could get LASIK and I did it, I explored it and I did it. And I remember the doctor was trying to sell me super hard on it and all this stuff. Like, they hardcore sell you on it. And I’m like, I’m good. And they’re like, Whoa, you’re already ready? And I’m like, yeah. They’re like, most people have so many doubts and have to come back 10 times and all this stuff. And I’m like, I’m ready, just make sure it’s good. 

They give you some medication and you’re calm and they basically drug you up a little bit so you’re not worried. I mean, it is weird to have something drilling on your eye almost, but it’s pretty harmless, cause you don’t feel anything. And then all of a sudden you see better and I’m like, Whoa! Yeah, it sucks for the first month because you have to do a lot of eye drops and you have to be on top of stuff, but it’s so amazing not being restricted anymore by something. If I lose my glasses or if I step on them or if I wake up, I need put, like, having that freedom was such a big thing.

There was also like this dark side to it. When I first got it, and this is not a bad thing, but I had people that I didn’t listen to, but I hate them for saying this. I told people that I was planning to get LASIK or that I schedule it a month out. I had this big sales conference for my company and I had LASIK scheduled for the beginning of November. Like it was a month out. I wanted to get it right away, but I had to wait. I wanted to get it before the conference to surprise people, the great reveal. That’s kind of my thing, just like the Chaminger brand, but I couldn’t.

So I told them, I’m going to go get LASIK after this conference. And then, I had female coworkers and stuff like that, be like, why are you getting LASIK? You look so good with glasses. And I was like, are you fucking kidding me right now? Like, I’m telling you this is something that I really want, it’s been restrictive. And then they’re almost saying don’t do it, we appreciate your appearance with glasses. So almost discouraging you from doing what you’re doing. They thought that they were complimenting me, but really what they were doing was fucking with my head.

If you think about that, like that’s so messed up. If right now, you told me, Hey, I want LASIK, I want to be free from this restriction and this limitation. And then all of a sudden I’m like, no dude, that’s who you are, you look so great with it, you seem smarter with it, all this stuff. Why would someone do that to you? Especially when you’ve already convinced yourself, and now they’re trying to almost convince you not to. 

When I first got LASIK and the first few weeks after, it was weird, because it was almost like an identity crisis. For anyone, who’s getting LASIK, you’re going to go through this, but it’s, it’s worth it. It’s an identity crisis because I had worn them for maybe like, I don’t know, 9, 10 years now, full-time. Now you don’t have that anymore. So your brain has recognized you with glasses, that’s who you are, that’s how it identifies itself. And now you lose that. It’s like, well, who are you? What are you? People said you look good with glasses, do you look good without? 

Alejandro: See? What I told you about the existential identity.

Fabian: Yup. It’s kind of crazy, everything changes, you accept it, you feel more confident, you gain into it, you build into it, you buy into it. And now if I wore glasses, I’m like, who is this alien? So it’s a progression, and I would say that was probably the hardest part of LASIK, re-establishing your identity. But, I got rid of this restriction, this thing that I wasn’t happy about that I just accepted.

Let’s say you just, for some reason, cannot kick a soccer ball. That was your weakness as a human and you accepted it. And then you underwent a training that taught you how to do it. All of a sudden it’s like, Whoa, I’m a different person. But if you can get rid of something that you’ve accepted, that you never liked, I would highly recommend that you figure that out. Because it is a game-changer. Long-term,  in the top three things, or maybe top two, maybe even top one, of most life-changing things that I’ve done. I finally felt more like myself, who I really was deep down. And that’s crazy, I mean, it was just glasses. It’s not that big of a deal, but because I begrudgingly accepted it, and then I was fine with it, but because I begrudgingly accepted it, getting rid of it was such a huge life-changing confidence booster. So I’ll leave that for you guys. I’m not telling you I’m going to get LASIK, but if you’ve got glasses be grudgingly and you thought that you weren’t happy with it, consider it down the road. I mean, it’s not cheap, but it’s worth it. What are your thoughts on all of that and let’s move on.

Alejandro: I think you bring up some very interesting points about how we see ourselves and how others see us. And I mean, everyone can have their opinion of how we think other people look. Like you said, maybe they had good intentions, that they said they accepted you for who you were, but maybe in them other hand, that was how they saw you and the change, that image of what they had of you, might alter it. But in the end of the day, what matters is how you feel about it. 

And it reminded me so much of conversations I had with a very dear friend of mine, who she was also very concerned, for example, about a the level of makeup that she would use. About the clothes she would wear, compared, for example, with her sister. And I said, no, you look fine just the way you are. Obviously my opinion doesn’t, shouldn’t matter for anything because what matters at the end of the day is yours. But I think you look good as you are. And as for your style, maybe your sister is, say more Marilyn Monroe, but you are more like Audrey Hepburn and that’s more your style. Just because there’s a difference doesn’t mean you don’t look good. 

So I think, that’s what it really comes down to. That, while maybe, like you said these colleagues of yours had good intentions, but at the end of the day, that was how they saw you and what mattered more was how you saw yourself. And I think that was an important thing to embrace, as you said.

Fabian: Well, I think that’s a perfect summary for that piece, the way you view yourself is the key. 

Hey guys. Thanks for tuning in to Real Talk. This concludes this part. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we loved making it. Please leave a comment mentioning what parts resonated with you and made you self reflect or view things differently. Please review or follow our podcast too. It helps us so much.

As always, don’t forget to follow us on all our social medias to get the full experience of #BecomingXceptional. Remember, stay amazing and tune in next week to hear what happens next on this session of Real Talk. Chaminger out.

May 26, 2021

Social Wisdom EP #3: Michael Dudley released!

Hello everybody, how are we today? Today Social Wisdom EP #3: Michael Dudley Part 2 released! In this very special episode we conclude by discuss the concept of becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable. Sometimes in life it is way too easy to close ourselves off and end up going through the motions.

Hear the story about how Michael transitioned from a corporate sales job to a start up in the healthcare industry after having a realization that he was not doing what brought him joy and satisfaction in life. Sometimes it is NOT about the money, and finding your passion is the key. Listen to his other advice regarding sales, AB testing and growth mindset!

Check out new episodes every single Wednesday. Remember that we are always looking for guests. Send us an email at if you would be interested to share your wisdom, you never know who will resonate with your journey. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Listen Social Wisdom EP #2: Michael Dudley released

Social Wisdom Episode #3: Michael Dudley Part 2
Social Wisdom Episode #3: Michael Dudley Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hola from Chaminger. My name is Fabian Chagoya and I’m your host of Social Wisdom. How do you know what to work on to improve? By being exposed to what is actually possible or obtainable. A major goldmine of untapped knowledge and experience is learning from others, Social Wisdom. Be a sponge, save yourself countless lessons and years of figuring it out the hard way by absorbing it firsthand from others. And here we go.

Welcome back to Social Wisdom by Chaminger. Thank you for joining us as we continue our journey to gain insight from others, since this is a multi-part episode. If you have not watched the previous segment, we highly recommend it for context, but feel free to continue and experience the valuable wisdom that is to be gained from this episode. You are the reason we do this. Enjoy today’s Social Wisdom. 

Today on Social Wisdom, we discuss getting comfortable with the uncomfortable with Michael Dudley.

Michael: Yeah, one other thing, as you were talking about that, maybe it’s just this, I think this generation in general, it does so many things to keep themselves comfortable. I mean, if you think about like half the things that are bought and sold, are just like pillows that just are a little bit more contorting to the head, or everything’s just a little bit more comfortable than that last thing that was already there. I feel like everyone’s keeping themselves boxed in. I, I think people are afraid to fail and I get that part, that’s very natural. 

But I also think, and this might be, I just thought of this and I hadn’t reviewed it with you. So hopefully you don’t mind me going this direction, but I think people take themselves too seriously. I’m pretty self-deprecate, I don’t take myself too seriously. Like I said, I know more things that don’t work than, than work. And I think if you’re willing to put yourself out there and willing to reveal yourself. Like you, jeez, in the first four minutes of being on this podcast. I talked about, you know, me going through a depression. You have to be willing to be yourself and be transparent. I think whether you’re in sales, people appreciate that. People don’t want the Facebook version where you’re just only posting or Instagram version of yourself where you’re only posting the highlight. 

If you think about any hero that we’ve, um, that we’re drawn to, they go through a point where, some type of low. They go through some valley where they learn something about themselves and then like the Phoenix, they rise. But we were with them in those low moments. And I think you have to sometimes be willing to take people through the low in order to take them to the high. 

You know, in sales, I always have to, I’m always willing to just say, Hey, this company that I’m at is not the best at this. And when I say that, then they’re like, okay, so all the things that he’s telling me that they’re good at, it’s true because he’s, he’s now, there’s some kind of like good and bad. He’s not just telling me all the great things that this company does and just shoving a bunch of sales jargon at me. Um, he’s being, he’s being transparent. He’s lowering his guard. 

I’ve been known, over the years, as a good closer, and I think the only reason that I’ve been good at that is because, whether it’s at the negotiation table or at closing, that person, that prospect is always on my side of the table. I’m always like their advocate. And I’m saying, Hey, I’m going to talk to my leadership about getting you this discount. I know what they’re going to ask me though, they’re going to ask us this. What are you want our response to be? I’m on your side of the desk. Like, let’s get this done. I want this done, you want this done, it’s that empathy. 

I mean, just the worst thing you can do in negotiation is tell somebody that you’re good at negotiating, because then they’re gonna be all right. Now, I’m going to screw you over just for absolutely no reason other than to show you, you’re not good at negotiating. Where if you come and just be like, Hey, can you help me out here? I’m trying to get this and trying to get that, I think we could use this on our side of the deal, Mr. and Mrs. Prospect. I think that type of empathy goes a long way and that also translates to life. 

I even have a hard time, you know, even being on a podcast where I’m giving advice, because I don’t want to be that guy who’s just like, you got to do it this way, gotta do it this way. I’m not that guy. I’m the guy who’s just like you. I’ve been there, I’ve done that. I just have, I’ve learned a couple things I want to be able to pass along. So hopefully somebody doesn’t have to go through the same mistakes as me, but I think ultimately you can’t take yourself too seriously. Um, or, or else everyone will want to shut you down. Everyone will want you to fail because they hadn’t seen you fail. Even though you’ve already failed behind closed doors.

Fabian: I love that. There really is something to be said about people taking themselves too seriously. I mean, once you’re able to laugh at yourself and just relax, I mean, everyone makes mistakes, everyone. And this was something that really kind of started turning me off towards these big corporate jobs and these non startups and stuff like that, was the fact that everyone took themselves so seriously. Yes, there’s something to be said about professionalism. I love it. I think it’s amazing because you get things done and you have a certain quality that you can expect. But once it got to the point where it’s like, well, I can’t tell the customer this, or I can’t say this, well why? You guys are all thinking this, why do we have to pretend that we’re saying something else or thinking something else? 

And I know I rattled a lot of feathers during my time there because I always embrace the approach of just brutal honesty. If a customer is like, well, what happened here? Why did this happen? Well, you know, our project management just completely dropped the ball here, but we’re going to find a way to make this work. So what do we need? I’m going to go talk to them, I’m on your side. When I was doing that, like I really was on their side because I’m like, you know what? You guys need this. Like, they absolutely need this product. You need this help, you really are like struggling a little bit to pay for things, but you’ll need that ramp up of money after three months of having this success with this product, so let’s do it. Like what can you afford? What can we do? Let me go fight for you up there. 

I know that sometimes the leadership and certain bosses were like, well, you should be more on our side. You should be trying to get more money and make the deal worth more so a, we make more, why are you helping them? And it was always like a struggle because then you have to be better about pitching it to your own bosses so that they don’t realize that. But to me, it was just like, I wasn’t afraid of that brutal honesty of saying what it is, like good or bad. And like you said, I feel like people appreciate that vulnerability and it’s hard, it really is. 

Like you said, the social media, like the Facebook, the Instagram, the highlight reel. People are so used to that part. All of a sudden you like show like, well, you know what? I got laid off last month and I haven’t found a job. I just got turned down by three jobs and you know, now I’m feeling a little depressed. Obviously don’t have to share everything. There’s some benefit to, you know, keeping the mystery alive and being private. But people really resonate with that because they’re like, Oh, this guy who I thought has everything figured out is actually a normal human being until he rises like a Phoenix. 

Which by the way, I love that analogy. I think there really is something to be said about that. I feel like that a lot of times, being underestimated, I actually like it. Um, I don’t know how you feel about that, but it’s kinda cool to be like, no one would expect this from you. Like they all think you’re going to do this and then you just come out.

Kind of curious before we move to the next part about talking about like your vision and the idea of success, but going to more of this startup. I’m sure some people are going to be like, Hey, well, why are you doing that? Why would you do that? Why would you give up like these insane corporations and potential? Do you almost feel like that’s you rising up and it’s like, Hey, this is what I want to do. This is who I really was. But you guys just never really understood or tell me more about that.

Michael: Yeah, so a couple of things. Um, one from a starter perspective, I’ve always been, you know, one of the top reps. And so for me, it was always good to be in a large sales field because I knew they would appreciate where I was. So, you know, being the, the top rep at a two rep company, isn’t as meaningful as a top rep at a 15 rep company. So I, I’ve been focused in on that in the past. 

One of the things that I would highly recommend if you do have a conversation with a recruiter or looking into some type of sales role, find one where you can earn equity. From that perspective, like the commission is good in the short-term, but none of it’s life changing. I think equity and being able to build a business, um, it’s like, it’s okay if your rep one out of two and you’re building a company that goes public and later on you’re rep one of 15, that’s, that’s awesome. That’s way better than doing anything else. What I’m looking forward to the most is that every sale is going to be extremely impactful for the entire business, in like a 20, 30 employee company, like you make a sale, everyone knows about it. Everyone’s celebrating, everyone is excited because you’re creating different bottlenecks in different sides of the business. And they’re like, they get pumped about it. And I think that’s very different than in a corporate job where you hit your number one month and it’s like, cool, two months later, it’s like, what have you closed here lately?

So, from that perspective, there’s a different aspect there and there’s also different culture too. Knowing that you’re a part of something that you’re literally like lifting up off the ground. I’m really looking forward to getting more involved with them and especially the industry that we are, where we’re really providing true care to patients and making an impact on patient’s lives. Like that, it’s going to be so exciting cause we’re all doing it together and I think that’s very different. Being on the corporate side, selling healthcare technology, you always had the sales versus professional services. I can’t believe you sold ’em this and like, it, it just it’s it’s way different. 

One of the reasons I made this, this role change is to be in a role where I can, when I make sales, I’m making a major difference in the lives of customers, in the lives of patients that these practices are serving, but then also make a huge impact in the company I’m working for. And then hopefully making a huge impact on my family. When that equity, you know, gets to a certain amount of money. I know we have certain targets and I know what that payout will be and so I’m working my butt off for that one day. I know in the meantime, I’m going to be, uh, reimbursed.

You have to be willing to understand if that’s, if that’s right for your family. I said goodbye to a couple colleagues last week and, and they’re like, I’m just getting out of that window of, of where I’m able to take risk as a family and not everyone’s able to do that. To go to a startup, you have to take one step back to take two steps forward. Thankfully this one, was actually a step forward, um, in order to hopefully take a lot of steps forward, but that’s not always the case. I understand that and so from that perspective, there’s just a major difference there.

I will say, you know, there’s going to be different things that you miss from that corporate life. The one thing that I know that I can’t do going forward is, there’s no hiding in a small company. There’s no like, at my annual year, I can take, you know, a week or two off. It’s like, I was on vacation a couple of weeks ago and I want to hit the ground running. Um, and I know that I’m not going to be able to, to hide, not that I was before, but you know what I’m talking about. In a corporate company, it’s so big that, um, sometimes you can get lost in the numbers and that that comes with both pros and cons.

So I hope that gives you a little bit of information about why I made that decision. I mean, ultimately it came down to being at the right place at the right time and being aligned with what I’m passionate about. The fact that it’s a small business was just icing on the cake.

Fabian: I love that so much because, you know, I feel like we get ingrained in our mind that we have to keep making more money, more money, and it’s all just about the money. And yeah it’s amazing and you know, there’s a lot of upside with your move. So I think that’s even better, but there’s just something to be said about creating something, creating a legacy. Knowing that your impact was part of the reason. Obviously I don’t know everything about this business that now you’re starting with, but it’s like, Hey, you get a big sale or you get a big customer. Like now they might be able to hire 10 more employees. They might be able to open a new department. They might be able to expand to another city and you are literally affecting so many other people’s lives. And there’s just something to. Be said about that. That is in my opinion, amazing. So I love that so much and I respect that and I really hope that it works out for you because that sounds really cool. 

I want to touch upon one thing that I think is a very misunderstood part about life. And it’s like, what is success? How do you get successful? And obviously that’s part of the thing that I want to explain to people, but I want to kind of change that definition because I think too many people view it as, Oh, that means that I am the CEO of this big corporation. You could argue that that guy is successful, but is he really successful? Like, did he sacrifice everything in his life, now he’s unhappy, he’s depressed. I would argue that that guy truly isn’t successful because what if he just loses his job because something happened at the company and now his head rolls and what does he have, you know? And he destroyed everything else to get there. I think there’s something to be said about us changing our view on success. And I know this is not like completely foreign, a lot of motivational speakers talk about this. But I think that it’s such an important concept because they’re habits and it really is about figuring yourself out, getting the self-esteem that no matter what happens, you’re going to be set up for success.

But I want to hear your take on the Chaminger definition and then I want to hear your opinion on what success means to you. So I have to read it because I always forget my exact wording, but it really is the point of where you feel great with what you have currently accomplish in life. So you’re happy with yourself, you’re happy with your worth, the value that you provide and you don’t need other people’s validation to feel like you’re successful. So that is our definition. Curious to know what your thoughts are on that.

Michael: Yeah, I love, um, I love that mentality. It aligns with what I’ve been talking about all along. I don’t really even think about success, success is like that after that I was talking about. It’s for me, like success was a validation of what I already knew or where the joy that I’ve already found. To give you a perfect example, you know, I was depressed and it’s hard even just like saying it out loud, but I had to take control over it. I couldn’t just say, you know, what, this is what it is like, I’m going to just keep doing this until I’m successful. No, I said, I’m going to take control of what I can control. I’d rather be happy at something that I’m enjoying and mediocre, or like, you know, in the world’s terms versus successful at something that I hate. 

I’ve seen so many executives over the years, like just be at the office until whatever, and they have a divorce and they go through all this. I hang out with them for drinks afterwards, and they’re just not, not all of them, but many of them just aren’t happy. And there are other people that, they’re clocking in, clocking out and then spend as much time as they possibly can with their family. I would almost rather err towards that second option, but I do think that there is an ability where you have to be on when you’re at work and you have to be able to flip it off. I know there’s many times where I have my phone and I know that people have a lot of great tips of, you know, turning off their email, turn off their phone, you know, when they’re at home. I can’t always do that, but sometimes I’m like, I just, I’m not going to respond to any emails until the morning. No deals are going to be signed right now, everything, almost everything can wait until the morning. Now is my time with my family, now is my time to do this and if I can’t enjoy this moment without thinking about all these other things and these clouds over my head, then it’s not even worth being here. 

So another good example, I joined a softball league two years ago. Um, I don’t play softball. I played little league, when I was like a child and I, I started playing softball and I was like in right field and they were like, please, no one hit it towards him. By the end of the year, like I won the MVP of the team just because I brought spirit, I brought energy and I wasn’t the best, but I was, I was bringing it. I ran around the bases for everybody. Cause that was the one thing I knew how to do. I was like, I know how to run, I know how to stop. I’m going to do that on behalf of the team. It’s like those kinds of moments, like where you have to, even if you’re not good at something, you have to try and if you’re passionate about it, people pick up on that. People appreciate that. 

I think the same thing, as you know, with, with life, you have to be able to find that joy. And if you’re at home and you’re not finding joy, you need to find out why there’s no joy there. You know, maybe it is, you know, spouse related, or maybe it is due to your house and your physical home. During the COVID-19, we did a lot of, uh, a lot of things around the house, we actually put a pool into our deck. There was a hot tub platform underneath it. We put a pool for my five-year-old three-year-old to be able to, to splash around in, it’s only like two feet tall. I just was not going to, to live with the fact that I couldn’t go to some neighborhood pool. I was like, I’m going to put pool anywhere I can put a pool, otherwise we’re just having a puddle of water somewhere because, uh, it’s going to too hot to not do something. 

So it’s, it’s those kinds of things where you just, you take control of your life, you find joy where you can. And if people call it success, cool, that’s whatever, you know, it’s icing on the cake, but if you’re happy and you’re finding joy in things, that’s all that matters.

Fabian: I think that’s a perfect way to end it on that note about the success piece. That’s awesome. I love that you take control of the situation. At the end of the day, are you going to do something about it or are you just going to complain? And it’s hard, we talk about it, like, you know, Hey, we got it all figured out, but I know both of us have, like you said it happened to you recently, up and down. So guys, it’s not just immediate, it’s not just always. It’s always a constant fluctuation, but that’s the cool thing about it, you know, find your passion. 

And this leads me to the final thing before we go with our goodbyes and our takeaways is what are your thoughts? I mean, you’ve really touched upon it throughout the entire episode and I love that, but it’s one of the things that I live my entire life, especially basically since I’ve graduated college, I’ve had this mantra of always be improving. So kind of want to know what is your take on that? And do you feel like it’s almost like maybe dangerous when you always want to be changing and growing and improving? Or is it just something that more people should approach?

Michael: My fear is that people will hear that and they’ll say, Yeah, that’s what you want to do. I can’t do that. And they’ll, they’ll think like that is how you’re wired and they’re wired differently and they, they can’t get to that point. And I think that’s up for debate. And I think that you do a good job of, of saying, Hey, I think everyone, everyone can, can improve. So that’s why everything I’ve been talking about has been like, Hey, you don’t always have to improve the way everyone else is telling you and to improve. If you’re going to find joy in something, why wouldn’t you want to improve? Why wouldn’t you want to do things your way? I think we live in a very expressive world where it’s perfectly okay to do things your style, as long as you’re in that lane. You can be all the way to the left or all the way the right, as long as you’re in that lane, you follow the rules to a certain extent.

And that’s why I’ve mentioned, I always, no matter what role I’m in, I always want a manager who gives me creativity to do things my way. And if I’m ever interviewing for somebody and they’re like, Nope, we want you to do it this way, we have this process. You cannot do it your way, you are not allowed any creativity, I’m not going to be a good fit. I have to have structure, I have to have lanes, but I want the liberty to do it my way. 

So, you know, I think from that perspective, I’m with you, I feel like everyone can be in that growth mindset. If you, if you acknowledge that you’re in that static mindset. So for me, I always like thinking like, what does that sound like? So I know I had a friend of the family who just was like, Hey, you know, this is me, you know, you either love it or hate it. Like, this is me, I’m not changing for anybody. I’m like, that’s not like a way that anyone should be living life. But actually it makes my blood boil a little bit when I hear that, because I’m like everyone should be trying to improve and get better at things. If we just have to accept each other as the 14 year old version of ourselves that we thought we figured out, that’s not going to get us anywhere. But if we’re always trying to improve, I think everyone appreciates that. Like that superhero story, people know that, like, you’re not perfect.

And I think that’s also another, another part too, is you have to be willing to, to let your guard down and let people see that other side of you. And if, if so, then, that improvement, people are going to celebrate with you and people are going to be like, yeah, dude, I remember you last year, you were like literally hating life and now you’re doing this, I’m so happy for you. And, and, but they can’t be so happy for you. In fact, they want to tear you down unless they know where you came from. So, um, that would be just my encouragement is that if you’re going to be growing, if you want to be constantly improving, find a way that you can find joy in it and that you can improve and love it and also take people on for the ride.

Fabian: Exactly, I think that’s the key. Like you said that there’s like this misunderstanding in people, like, well, I can’t do that. And it’s because I think people just hear that and they’re like, Oh, it has to be major improvements. Like if I’m 10 pounds overweight, now I have to be like fit. I’m like, no, maybe you just exercise once a week now and before you never exercised. That’s already an improvement, you know? And I think it’s rewiring your mindset and just changing your view on it. Like even small little things are the key and that’s at the end of the day, what brings us to make changes in our lives and grow, because if every day you just do a little change, a little change. I know, I’m sure you can relate, especially considering you were doing fitness related stuff and nutrition, it really is the small things that add up over time. And then eventually once it becomes a habit, it’s easy, but it’s getting to that point.

Michael: Everyone wants the six pack abs, no one wants to actually do the crunches. 

Fabian: Exactly. So with that said, Michael, this has been an amazing talk. Uh, I love everything you’ve had to say, your response to it. I want to shout you out, first of all, for reaching out. I want to hear your take on something that I’ve kind of noticed that, um, it’s, you know, we’re figuring this out as well. This is a new journey, but I feel like a lot of people are paying attention, are watching, are listening, but a lot of people are hesitant to reach out, or to start this journey, or to share their take on it, or maybe it resonated with them, but they might not publicly acknowledge that. And I feel like there’s almost like this fear of showing that like, like you said, that vulnerability, that weakness, like, Hey, I portrayed to the world that I have everything figured out. Yet here I am, I feel pretty darn secure at my job. Like everyone makes me feel inferior, or something. 

So I’m kind of curious, you reached out, you were on this journey to do this new job. You were leaving something that probably most people were like, Oh, Hey, even if this new thing is even more prosperous and successful, like you were leaving something that most people were like, wow, why would you leave that? You have your life set. You took a risk. And I’m curious to know what was the kind of motivated you to, you know, reach out and be inspired to do this. Cause, I mean, did you ever feel like a moment of hesitation when you’re like announcing like this big change and you’re doing something new or was it just easy for you?

Michael: Yeah, I think, you know, like for you, I think I just said, Hey, I man, I love what you’re doing. If you ever need a guest. I do know that there is that person who’s like, Hey, can I be a guest on your show? That wasn’t my intention. My intention was like, I just want you to know, like, you’re doing a good thing. I also know like, it’s hard to create content all the time. So, you know, if you need help with that, I’m happy to help you out. Uh, but I think it’s just another way that I was putting myself out there. And I think that’s, that’s, that’s the part is like, you know, I would often take just calls from recruiters, even if I was happy. Just because, you know, I never want to close a door that hasn’t even been opened yet.

So like, that’s the perspective I like to take is just, same thing with the headphones in the airplane. Just like, I don’t know what’s going to happen. Maybe I don’t want to talk to that person, but I would rather have that option to talk with that person, then not talk with that person. So it’s kind of that mindset where it’s like, you just have to be open-minded and I think that’s the hardest part that I have with COVID is I miss those interactions with people. I miss, like at the gas station, you know, having those interactions and not everyone does. I know I’m an extrovert, I enjoy those things. 

I miss being able to be a manager and being drop-shipped into an opportunity and being able to meet a physician and hear what his problem, I know to a certain extent he’s gonna be feeling one or two, three, or four different pains uh, and I can kind of hone in on that, but I I’m excited. I actually loved walking into and cold calling a private practice and just say, I don’t know, what’s on the other side of the store, but I’ve trained my butt off. I know my talk tracks. I know what I’m going to say. So I’m excited to see which one, which objection he gives me because I want to see their reaction when I give them, you know, the objection handling response that I’ve developed for that. So for me, it was like, I enjoy those interactions with, with other people in life, um, that were pre COVID. And we’ll see what, what happens after, you know, a couple months here. I hope things, I hope people are willing to break that six foot barrier and, and be able to bump shoulders with people. 

One last analogy. I know we’re kind of cutting on time. But, uh, one thing I, I think it was like a Bar Rescue episode or something like that I was watching, but they literally talked about like bars were set up a certain way so that you had these bump areas where like people would, would, would mingle with each other. If it was too wide open people wouldn’t feel like they’re a part of a community. And it’s kind of like, I wish there were more bump areas in life where we could just meet each other and like I said, we, we might’ve said two or three words to each other at this old company before, but I always respected. You sounds like you respected me. So from that perspective, it’s like, we need more interaction with people.

And that’s one of the reasons why I felt, you know, kind of depressed at that point last year. So I think from that perspective, it’s like, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and just say, Hey, I’m going to be a vulnerable. I’m not going to take myself too seriously. I’m going to bump in with other people and we’ll see what happens. Uh, you know, if it’s being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Those are uncomfortable situations. And, uh, I, I thrive for it. So  I really hope that this normal new normal includes more bump areas.

Fabian: I love it. I that’s literally, that was a perfect conclusion to the episode, a great way of tying it all back together. It really is guys, be willing to be uncomfortable. It’s scary at first, but once you try it, it changes everything. I mean, I will end this with an analogy where I think about, like, I became very good at hosting parties and social gatherings because of my parents. They always had the host stuff, because diplomats have to host other diplomats. Like, so the Mexican ambassador would have the American ambassador over, the president of that country and like, you know, we’re hosting like the 30, 40 people. You know, my mom is either catering or making food herself and we have music and all of a sudden my dad is having karaoke going so that people can like mingle together with a shared activity. Like you said, a bump thing. 

And that’s kind of where I, you know tying it back to my Mexican tradition, I had like this thing, like I called it the Mexican cheers. Where like, I’d do a shot with people, or I gather people together and like, do you guys know the Mexican cheers? And like, everyone starts doing it. And there’s a lot of strangers that come together, like I asked them, Hey, come on, do a shot with me. I’m going to teach you the Mexican cheers and if you ever go to Mexico, you can get a free shot if you do this. Because Mexicans love Americans who appreciate their culture. 

So all of a sudden you have like 10, 15, 20 people that have never talked to each other. Maybe they all know me, but now that you’re doing the shot together, we do it. Like everyone’s like yelling because you know, they’re excited. It’s something different. And now all those 10, 20 people feel like they can talk to each other. Because now they have a shared activity they’re like, man, what did you think about that? A Mexican cheers, that was crazy. Huh? Now they feel like they can actually just approach a stranger because before it’s like, Hey, I don’t want to interrupt them, but now they’re able to do that. They did something that maybe made them uncomfortable, but now they feel comfortable and now it completely changed the dynamic of the gathering, the party.

It’s just little things like that. And it really resonated with me what you said about, Hey, like those areas for people to bump into. And it’s kind of crazy how it’s just kind of completely vanished right now with COVID, but I know we’re going back to that and I’m super excited to see that, but I appreciate you so much for everything you said, all the messages  and advice that you had to offer. I think there’s a lot of great things that people can absorb there. I mean, we’ve had some similar experiences, but also completely different ones. So guys make sure you listen to everything Michael has to say, he will not lead you astray, but you know, also remember to forge your own path.

So now is your opportunity to make any shout outs you want to do, talk about anything that you want to share or thank people that you want to thank. So the floor is yours.

Michael: Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And you know, if you want to connect on me, you can find me at on LinkedIn, uh, Michael Dudley, D U D L E Y. Um, I’m also launching a YouTube channel where I’m talking about some of the patient success stories that we’re doing. It’s just trying to keep things positive and I think in today’s world, um, we have people constantly bashing each other on social media, just to just a Ray of positivity. So I’ll be doing a lot more to bring you guys in on that future journey on LinkedIn, as well as on YouTube, you can find me @ValueBasedMicheal on YouTube. 

Again, we’re just getting started. Uh, I’m pretty excited about I’m going to be building this brand. And, if you are, if you’re in the healthcare space and you have a provider, if you are working with a practice who, uh, wants to be able to impact lives, I’d love to talk with you more. Again, you can reach me at That’s C O H O R, that is the email address. You can feel free to shoot me an email too. I mean, ultimately, um, I love meeting new people, so don’t, don’t hesitate to reach out. I just love hearing experiences. I mean, I, I’m always attracted to people that come from different backgrounds than me. So to hear like the karaoke and, uh, karaoke is one of those things I’m not good at. That’s one of the secret moments I was telling you about. Hearing that culture aspect of it, I love that. I love that part, I love learning about that. 

So, um, it actually kind of drew up one last point, which is, um, be inquisitive and ask questions. I think at that point in time, if you, if you ask somebody like, well, what was that like? I think people are just naturally going to, or if you ask for help or ask questions, you’re like, Oh my gosh, you just seem curious. People will put you under their wing and they’ll carry you along for their ride.  

So, um, I mean, I just, I just can’t thank you enough for, for hosting this specific podcast and everything that you’re doing. I love the brand. I love what you guys are encouraging people to do. So I would just, uh, thank you guys for for having me and doing what you guys are doing. Uh, and I just, I personally just thank you for having me. Ultimately if, if I get nothing other than just, you know, one person saying that their life, you know, they did one or two, two changes where they, uh, they just took off their headphones in the airplane. One or two things, I am so happy that I spent this time with you.

Fabian: Yeah, well, I view this as I’m definitely going to stay in touch with you. I’m going to be following your journey. I love that it can start new friendships, new connections. I mean, I think it’s so cool, especially, uh, you know, people that are willing to risk to try something new and build something. You know, like I, I’ve never done YouTube before and all this stuff like that. I’m sure you haven’t really either. So it’s so cool to see other people also trying to expand their horizons and build personal brand and professional brand as well. I will always support that. And I know a lot of people are gonna resonate with this. You had some excellent things to share.

I guess I have one last question to you. So I’ve interviewed some people that don’t have a lot of experience that are still very young, because I want to prove to people that so many people feel like they don’t have anything to share. They don’t have any advice. They don’t have any wisdom. And I tell them, that’s not the case at all. Like someone could, you could be 22, 23 and you’ve lived a crazy life, or you’ve figured out something that maybe none of us have realized. Yet, here you are, you’ve worked at some very prestigious companies. You’ve gone through amazing things. You’ve had some lows, but you’ve overcome it and now you’re trying a new journey. I think there’s so much to be said about that. So, uh, what do you feel about, I guess, to, to send us off for Social Wisdom, what is your take on wisdom? Is that something that is age related, experience relate, or does everyone have something to share?

Michael: While you were saying that I, I instantly became very opinionated. I I’m glad you asked that question. So I  appreciate your willingness to just kind of feel the vibe. So as a manager, uh, I, everyone who I had managed up until, I think six months before  everything changed with COVID. Everyone who has managing was older than me. So I was managing people who, like in an age perspective, was older than me. However, uh, I think that my experience with the organization and my drive was the reason I was in that role and they weren’t. I don’t think there were any subordination issues because of it, but the one person I hired that was younger than me, I had to make a decision. I had one, one sales rep candidate that had done an interview and he was a young guy. He actually didn’t speak great English, but he had a drive to. I mean, he had a pure, like positivity that you couldn’t deny. 

And I had two or three other candidates that were really, really well established, uh, that had, you know, accolades, have been top rep and had done everything. But, um, they were also, they felt like they were more uh closed-minded and that they were going to do things their way. I ended up hiring the younger guy because he had that drive. He had that tenacity, he had like a, um, a positivity that I knew that I was going to enjoy managing him and he generally cared about what was going on. And in fact, he’s one of my favorite hires, because he was so genuine and he had, he had an energy that you don’t see very often. So I, you know, I, I hope that I can be like that type of energy and I, I think you definitely are. 

When we run across these types of human beings, that just are, are positive. That’s why when you’re asking me like, what’s the difficulties of COVID? I was like, I want to talk about the positivity first. I don’t want to be known as that guy who’s complaining. I never want to come in and, and, uh, describe a problem without coming with a solution. I never, I always want to be that positive guy, even if the world around us isn’t as positive. I’m going to be transparent. I’m going to tell it like it is. But at the same point in time, at the end of the day, I want to be someone that people want to be around. And I think that is my last, last, last, uh, soapbox moment. It it’s just to be a positive person that people want to be around. And if that’s the case you’re going to be successful at sales are going to be successful at anything you do.

Fabian: Thanks so much, Michael. Well, you guys heard it here, get uncomfortable with the comfortable and you’ll become a rising Phoenix. Chaminger out.

Hey, my fellow Chamingers, thanks so much for experiencing the Social Wisdom of the week. We hope you absorbed as much as you could. Please leave a comment if you learned something or if you have another guest whose wisdom you’d love to hear. If the message is helping you, please remember to check out our Ko-fi donation page so we can also Become Xceptional. Follow our journey on all our social medias and subscribe so you will never miss an opportunity to #BeASponge. Chaminger out.

May 24, 2021

My 3 Cents Episode #6 released! And 1 month livestream!

Hola my Chamingeritos! My 3 Cents Episode #6: Power of Perspective Part 2 released today marking the 14th episode of our podcast, in addition to us celebrating 1 month of being launched.

We will be doing a deep dive on what we discussed on our 1 month celebration stream including topics such as: What it actually takes to make a podcast a lifestyle and job vs just a hobby; a new podcast series; a release schedule change; company updates and a new product announcement! Check the STREAM recording HERE!

Make sure to listen and read the transcript to this very special episode of My 3 Cents. Today we continue our discussion on the power of perspective and how to use it to take back control of your emotions when responding to any unfavorable situation. You are in fact way better than you think.

Listen to My 3 Cents Episode #6 released today!

My 3 Cents Episode #6: Power of Perspective Part 2
My 3 Cents Episode #6: Power of Perspective Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hello everybody. How are we today? My name is Fabian Chagoya. 

Stephani: And my name is Stephani Furminger and you are listening to Chaminger: Becoming Xceptional. 

Fabian: And this is My 3 Cents about the power of perspective.

Welcome back to My 3 Cents by Chaminger. Thank you for joining us as we continue our previous discussion on a journey to Becoming Xceptional, since this is a multi-part episode. If you have not watched the previous segment, we highly recommend it for context, but feel free to continue and experience the valuable message delivered in this episode, regardless.

We appreciate you. We hope you enjoy listening to our 3 Cents.

Another thing that I think about when talking about how other people view you is, when you start realizing a lot of people view you on a much higher level than you view yourself. That’s one of the key takeaways that I want people to have from this episode is you are significantly better than you think. Every single person out there is a lot better than they think.

Stephani: And I’m just going to say something about that.  I’ve been hearing you say it a lot in the Real Talk series, and it really is such a valuable thing to do for yourself. Start writing positive self-affirmations and reflect on that, because if you are going back and thinking about the things that you are really good at or things that people have told you that you’re really good at. You may not have thought, Oh, I’m really good at folding clothes, but then a couple of people have complimented me on it.

So, I mean, I guess I am really good at that and that is a strength of mine. I don’t know where that’s going to come in handy. You know, maybe I’m the quickest in the world. And then I’m going to be in the Guinness Book of World Records or something. 

Fabian: And then we can retire. 

Stephani: Exactly. But, you know, even if it’s just something little or it seems like something that’s insignificant because once you are, once you write that down. And then you start thinking about all the other things, and then you are continually adding to your list. Like, let’s just say you have a notebook and you’re just, as someone says something, you’re like, Oh, I never thought about that before. I’m really good at walking on my tiptoes. So I wonder if that means I would be good at walking in heels. Maybe I should try that. 

You know, you keep writing those things down and then maybe three months down the road, you are, maybe a couple times a week, you’re going back to that list and just writing those things down. And now all of a sudden you have, let’s just say a page and a half of things that you are good at or things that stood out to other people or yourself that are great about you. And it’s like, Oh wow, I’m better than I thought I was. That is such a confidence booster, because they’re not necessarily things that you ever would have known about yourself or thought about yourself, but they’re things that you noticed or other people noticed. And I think that can be a really valuable thing in viewing your yourself in a different perspective. 

Fabian: Thank you for bringing that up because that is something I would have definitely forgot to mention and it’s true. I mean, obviously we talk about it in Real Talk as well, because it’s a journey where I have harsh conversations with my brother. We discuss kind of like our journey growing up of having lived in so many different countries and having to start over and getting to know yourself is really the key. Like self-reflecting to that point and everything you said was people just don’t know themselves and their strengths versus their weaknesses. And too many people put this false value on one skill set over another. There are a few skill sets that you can say, bring you more money or bring you more success in dating or party hosting.

But at the end of the day, for example, like you said, like you’re just to go back to yours, like folding clothes. Like what if that skill you actually did apply it to get a world record? I mean, 

Stephani: Or like, let’s say you’re traveling and you have to pack very efficiently. Like you, you want to, um, go on a three-week trip, but you only have one suitcase and you don’t know what the weather is going to be like. So you have to kind of pack for all scenarios. Or a couple of different scenarios. So it’s not like you’re just going to the beach and you’re only packing bathing suits. So you may need to have some bulkier things. You need to pack different types of shoes because you’re going to be walking a lot, or you’re going to be at the beach, all these different scenarios that folding might come and in handy in that scenario.

Fabian: This is a true story guys. Well, Stephani, I think that’s such an incredible example because it really reminds me that so many people compare themselves to someone else. To see like, Oh, well I don’t have any strengths. I just have weaknesses. But you know, the secret is, once you start being able to see yourself differently and view things differently, you start putting yourself in situations where your strengths can shine. And your weaknesses are kind of avoided. You avoid the things that you’re not good at. But that’s where, I mean, one of the key things about this journey that we’re constantly going back to is getting that self-awareness to getting to know yourself. 

Self-reflecting to get that because once you know yourself, you’re in control. So what do I mean by that? I will never, ever put myself in a situation where I have to draw or do something artistic to survive. I am probably one of the worst artists in the world. Like literally stick figures is stressful for me. I, whenever people tried to play Pinterest or those like Pictionary, sorry. Not Pinterest. What up Pinterest. Pictionary with me, I dreaded it. I hated it, because I struggled. I would always like, try to write the words with the drawings or something like that. People are like, you can’t do that. I’m like, well, why not? I’m like, how about we just talk and like, can we just act it out? Can we talk it out? People like that harder. I’m like, no that’s joke mode.

And it goes to show you, people are like, Oh, well you’re 29. And you were at this level, you have this, you’ve accomplished this. I’m like, yeah, but you make me, put me in that situation, I could not do anything. Literally. And I mean, I’ve gotten better at it because I’ve had to, but I’ve never historically been the best at like baseball, football, but 99% of American men and especially sales guys, that’s all they can do. You know, that was what they grew up with and they’re good at it. And I admire them for it because it’s a skillset that I just never had. I also grew up differently. So why would I? But you know what I mean? Like if we’re talking about apples and comparisons. Apples to apples in comparison. I could not hold a candle to them.

So if we’re talking, if we were only talking baseball and football, I would be like bottom of the barrel compared to these guys. But I’m not a bottom of the barrel guy. 

Stephani: You’d be sitting on the bench. 

Fabian: Exactly. So the fact is I can admit that. I know my strengths, I know my weaknesses and I put myself in situations to succeed. And that’s obviously getting to know yourself, self-awareness but it’s starting to view yourself differently. I don’t view those weaknesses as problems. I’m just like, okay. 

Stephani: I just won’t put myself in that situation. 

Fabian: Exactly. And once you’re able to do that. View these weaknesses as things that you’re like, okay. Maybe those are things that I pay someone to do for me, or I outsource. It completely changes the game. But, I think now it’s time to go into the story because we definitely got sidetracked. 

Stephani: I’m anticipating this story. 

Fabian: So let’s, I want to talk about two general things and then I want to get into a specific one. So I first want to start, and this is all goes down to changing how you view a failure.

And number one, I want to talk about, and two combined, is friendships and relationships. So not going to name any names, not going to get any specifics. But I just think, like, for example, some of my early friendships, having moved so much and lost people, you know, I have to get good at befriending people.

And even now as an adult, I’m just used to moving on. Like, I don’t dwell. Other people get all sad and cry if someone doesn’t text them back. I’m like next, next, next. It’s someone I really care about and someone that means a lot to me, and they’ve shown that back to me, I’ll put in the effort. But you know, before didn’t know that you have to put in the time and the effort and the same thing goes to like with a relationship. And it’s why I, in the past, no one understood why I wasn’t obsessed with like, trying to go after a relationship. And it’s because I knew how much time it took after having failed at one. Like literally, I just, I got into one and I you know, I was the gamer. And I’m just like, yeah, I still want to game. I’m like, I’ll just see you once or twice a week and all these things. And all of a sudden, they’re getting mad at me and I’m like, Ooh, uh, I probably need to be spending more time, huh? But to be fair, I also didn’t really enjoy the conversation with them. And we, it wasn’t like true compatibility, but you got to get to know that, right? 

You learn that. I’m like, Oh, okay, so I don’t want someone that treats me like that. I don’t want someone that only cares about this. I don’t want someone that’s like this, or I don’t want friends that do this. I, you start learning. Too many people are like, Oh my God, I failed this relationship. It’s over. Well, what did you learn from that? Oh, next time I’m going to do this. I failed this friendship. What did I learn from that? Oh, I need to text them once a week. I need to call them once a month. I need to hang out with them once every, whatever. That’s the general advice for that piece. 

So let’s get into the real story now. And this is a very recent story and it comes down to sales. And it was at my medical software sales job. So we’re talking business to business sales, selling to an extremely large surgery group. And this contract, selling a service that basically completely takes a percentage of their business. So if you guys aren’t familiar with the healthcare industry, essentially a medical practice has a billing department. And a billing department handles insurance collection, payments, making sure that the patients who come are actually paying, basically it’s the cashflow for a medical practice. Which is very important because without that doctors aren’t getting paid, staff isn’t getting paid, business is going to close. So an absolutely critical function. 

The service that we were selling was basically covering all of that, which is a huge deal. Especially the larger an entity is, the larger corporation is, the more impact and money they’re making. So they’re going to be even more tight about, the reason why they became big, the reason why they grew, is because they knew how to make money. They knew where the money is and they knew how to collect it. So if you’re trying to convince someone to give you, you know, probably about a third of their business to outsource a third of their business, maybe even more, that’s a big deal.

It’s like, if right now we said, Hey, we’re going to outsource two of our episodes to someone else. That’s a big deal. 

Stephani: Yeah. 

Fabian: You know, like obviously it’s, it’s not exactly the same, but just to kind of paint the picture for people that might not understand the healthcare example. So this was a contract, like no other, it literally this one sales deal would have made my entire year and more. I would have made more money than I’ve ever made in one second, if that contract got signed. But it also meant that the people that I was working with, the people I was selling to were at a much higher level. Their knowledge was significantly higher. So what does that mean? 

I thought I was ready when I first started approaching them and talking to them. It was kind of like that, but I had to grow, I had to learn so much, because the questions they ask, the things that they expected, the things that they wanted, the traps that they put in place. Because yes, customers at that level, put traps to see if you fall for them and then they won’t buy from you if you fall for it.

Like it’s a game of chess. And from my very first meeting to my last, let’s say it was over like a four or five month period. I grew probably 100% and I was already a top salesman. I made president’s club at this company. Like I had sold it all. And then you try to sell to these guys. Obviously you always hope for the CEO or the doctors that don’t know business and they’re easy prey, but this business was. 

My skillset increased so much, but I didn’t get the sale. And obviously you’re going to be down about that, because literally that’s a life-changing moment. 

Stephani: Well, before, uh, I know that you said that you didn’t get the sale. But while you were going through that process of trying to sell this group, were you, um, cause I know that there were negotiations and some, a lot of back and forth. How was your mindset during that period of time? 

Fabian: During that entire time, I was 100% confident that they would buy from me. There was zero doubt in my mind. 

Stephani: So when they didn’t end up buying from you, did that crush you even more? Did that bring you down extra because you were so confident or do you think that regardless you would have felt that same way?

Fabian: It definitely did for a little bit. I mean, obviously then started applying these, all this. The thoughts and process of like the Chaminger brand to overcome that barrier. 

Stephani: And just so everyone knows, just because, we both are trying to live this, these daily and just these key things, doesn’t mean that you can’t have a minute of weakness or a moment. Because we’re human it’s it’s gonna happen. That’s just how we are. But then, you know, you have your moment and then just take a step back and reflect and change your mindset. View it in a different perspective and find the lesson. Anyway, continue. I just wanted to throw that out there. 

Fabian: I love that and thank you for that. 

Stephani: Yes. 

Fabian: It was rough, especially because I could have done things better. Always. But according to the client, the main reasons why they didn’t do it, they could have lied to me. It’s certainly possible, but I don’t believe so because that was not the relationship we’d established. The reasons were things outside of what I handled. There were things that were related to my company’s quality control, um, et cetera. I’m not going to get into, I’m not here to sling dirt, but it was things that I had zero control over. And it was things that were more related to like the marketing and executive decisions from the leadership. So I lost a life-changing moment because of things that were mostly outside of my control.

Yes, I might’ve been able to do a little better here and a little better here and I might’ve convinced them. But I didn’t also want to lie to them. Right. So like that’s such a critical piece that I want to mention is like, integrity and being honest. Right? Like that was key. So if they said, Hey, I heard this problem. Well, I’m like, you’re right. And it didn’t pay off. And what do you do? What do you do at that point? Well, that, like you said, that moment of weakness hits you. You’re like, Oh my goodness. Maybe I’m not good enough. But then you start thinking, you’re like oh wait a second. 

Stephani: How was I even able to continue to be having this conversation with this group for this long? If I wasn’t good enough. I don’t know if that’s what you were going to say, but that’s where my mind went. 

Fabian: Exactly. 100%. And I know that 9 out of 10 people would be killing themselves over it. And it’s over and they’re just going to be dwelling on it and all this stuff. It’s like, you gotta move on, but you also got to realize the lessons from there. You’re like, what did I learn? Cause you know what, I remember the next time I spoke to a small business and talked about this, I’m like, Oh my goodness, like they’re almost ready to make a decision. And we’ve only talked once and I’ve just had so much more knowledge. I can tell them everything. It’s like, Whoa, I remembered like eight months ago, I couldn’t do that. And now look at me. 

Again, it’s something that we keep talking about, but being able to look back at yourself, every so often, like do a check-in a month from now, two months from now, three months from now, four months from now. Where were we back then? And where are we now?

Stephani: The power of perspective, people. 

Fabian: The power perspective and the final takeaway from that story is the second part of how to view failure as a lesson is the key to controlling your emotions, your happiness. To almost everything is, how do you respond to an incident? It’s probably the hardest thing to do.

And I tend to have to usually take a step back and have some alone thinking time. But that’s just because I’m, I’m a person who’s very analytical. And then after that, I’m good. But most people don’t know how to respond to things and they overreact. When you actually can control how you respond to it and then view it, change your view on it and learn the lesson from it and then make a decision. That’s powerful. That puts you on a completely different playing field than most people. 

And I, I’m going to constantly reference that, but how you respond to things is key. So if someone says something that you’re not prepared to hear, or you don’t like, what are you going to do? Are you going to run away? Are you going to make a fuss or are you going to listen and be like, okay, how can we talk about this? And I could go on, but it really is again, changing your view and it’s going to keep going back to it. Once you have control over that, you are literally in the driver’s seat. I think too many people always remain in the passenger seat and not even the passenger seat, they are actually in the back seat and they’re letting other people drive them around and control their emotions and all these stuff. And it’s just very frustrating to see because so many people live significantly worse lives, just because of that. 

Stephani: You gotta take control of that wheel, because it is your life. And why are you allowing other people to control that, any part of your life, but just control the wheel in any way, shape or form. There’s no reason for that.

Fabian: I really liked that. I really, really like that analogy or that. 

Stephani: You came up with the analogy.

Fabian: It’s something that, it’s crazy to think about. How the moment we put too much emphasis on, you know, what other people think or on the negatives or what went wrong or what could have been, we stop living in the moment or we just limit ourselves. And I’m going to share a quick example because really the takeaways have been very present and very evident.

But it reminds me of my journey of getting to my medical software sales job here in Colorado. Where I turned down over 20 jobs. But I also failed to get about like eight or nine, very high tier, elite sales jobs. And that gets to you, especially when you already had done six to seven interviews and you’re on your eighth and you’re interviewing with the president or the CEO. And for some reason they just, I don’t like Mexicans that happened by the way. 

Stephani: Oopsie. 

Fabian: It actually still kind of bothers me. And 

Stephani: Well, you wouldn’t have wanted to work for that company anyway. 

Fabian: Power of perspective!

Stephani: Yes. But I could, I definitely understand how that could be frustrating because you could have been perfect for that job. Or let’s just say the president of that company wasn’t available that day and someone else had to perform the interview and that person love, loves Mexicans, or just loved your, your interview. And you may have gotten the job, but then, you know, you have to work closely with the president, let’s say, and then it just falls apart. You’re not happy and you end up hating the job because you just wouldn’t have gotten along with that person. 

Fabian: It just makes you realize that you can do everything right. And some people are just not going to like you, you know? Like I know that certain things, especially since I embrace the Mexican culture, I mean, I that’s part of my like opening line, right? Like, who are you? Tell me more about yourself. And I’m like half Mexican, half German and I love all this stuff.

And you know this and they’re like, You have too much energy or you it’s like, well, what are you going to do? You know? Like, do you change yourself for that? No. Cause like you said, if you do, you might get the job, you might be okay for awhile, but you’re going to end up resenting it and you’re not going to be, you’re not going to be happy down the road. And then we’re right back at stage zero, where- 

Stephani: you’re doing more interviews. 

Fabian: Yup. But the takeaway for the interviews, thank you for bringing me back to that. Was just, every time you failed an interview that you, or you didn’t get the job, I guess I should say. You could have had an amazing interview. You didn’t get the job. One of the things that I started asking a lot of them afterwards was like, well, what could I have done differently? Like what, one of the questions I even started asking in interviews to these sales managers or CEOs like that was like, well, what would be your ideal employee? If I work for you, what are the things that I could do to make you, your job easier? You start asking, then you start hearing things like, Oh, well, when I tell you to submit something by Friday, could you please submit it by Friday? Because then I have to defend you to the VP and I get chewed out and it’s not fun to get chewed out. I’m like, Oh yeah. You know, you start hearing some stuff like that. 

Stephani: If we ask you to do a training by Friday, make sure that you do it by the Monday before, because it’s a competition between the whole company to make sure that the whole team. 

Fabian: Yup. 

Stephani: Does the training before it’s actually due. 

Fabian: Yup. You shouldn’t be selling, guys. You shouldn’t be selling, you gotta be focusing on the training.

Stephani: Exactly. 

Fabian: But, it’s just, it’s changing your view on these interviews. Like you didn’t get the job. What did you learn? Now you have better practice. You have, you can refine your story. You can refine your resume. Oh, everyone is commenting about that part. Keep that in. Oh, someone liked that part. Keep that in. You know, you start seeing what works and what doesn’t and it’s the same thing, like, I mean, that’s sales 101. It’s like, Hey, you email the client, they didn’t respond. Okay, change the email. You emailed this time, oh, you got 10 responses, keep doing that. Now try to improve it even more. You had a PowerPoint presentation, no one responded to it, try without. You know, like so forth and so forth. 

Like there’s so many different things that you can do, but it’s always learning from it and changing your viewpoint on it. Didn’t work out? What good came from it. View yourself from their point of view. Oh, this random sales guy came in and did this and he annoyed me. Well, how would I feel if some guy did that to me? The same reason why I tell people, Hey, don’t just call me randomly, cause I’m not going to pick up. That’s annoying because I’m spending time with you, I’m working on the podcast and doing stuff like that. Text me, email me, ask me if I’m available. If I am, I will call you or you can call me, I’ll say absolutely. And it’s just being able to view yourself outside your body and understand how other people feel. Power of empathy, I guess. I don’t know. But 

Stephani: Yeah, I mean, that is a hard one though, too, because obviously everyone is different. So you know, that one person didn’t like Mexicans, but I mean, that’s another issue, but it’s just like some people, they may not love the, they may not like the energy that you bring. It’s, it’s too much for them, but that doesn’t mean that you should be changing that. Maybe you are like, okay, well maybe I should tone it down a little bit or no, I that’s who I am. That’s that’s how I want to perceive myself. And they don’t, if they don’t like it, then next. So it just depends on the scenario. Depends on the situation, but definitely take a moment to reflect, look at that, reflect on it. Is that something that I value? Is that something that is important to me? Yes. So I’m going to keep that or, I mean, I guess I could change that a little bit. It it’s not necessary or whatever the situation may be. But the point of the story is that changing your perspective on something doesn’t just have to be, um, how you view yourself personally. It could also relate to professionalism as well. And I liked that you brought that in too. 

Fabian: Yeah, well, it’s something that we’re definitely going to touch upon in other episodes, but I think it’s important that people realize that, um, once you can start changing your perspective, you can start changing things. You can start becoming more self-aware, because all of a sudden everything changes. You started realizing what really matters, what really doesn’t, who you like spending time with you, who you don’t. 

Once you can take a step back and almost think critically and pause, and how do I respond to this, you know? How did this make me feel? I’m like, am I really enjoying myself right now? Like it’s just really being able to take that step back. It opens up so many doors, it’s an unlock to so much, and it really is the first key to Becoming Xceptional.

Stephani: #BecomingXceptional. 

Fabian: And just remember guys, #StayAmazing as well. 

Stephani: Yes. 

Fabian: You are better than you think. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. And if you don’t think you’re amazing, that’s exactly why you need to go on this journey, because something or someone made you think that, and it’s changeable, it’s learnable.

And that’s why Chaminger is here, never fear. 

Stephani: To help, to help back you up and realize how good you actually are and give you the tools to help you realize how good you are. 

Fabian: I love it. So I would say that is My 3 Cents on the power perspective. Do you want to conclude the episode first? 

Stephani: Yes. Well, of course, as always, we appreciate everyone tuning into this episode of My 3 Cents. Um, be sure to check out our other series as well, if you haven’t already. We have Real Talk, Social Wisdom, and we also have a couple of live streams, so make sure to check out everything Chaminger. And we are still growing, so please share our message with anyone and everyone, but especially with anyone that you think may resonate with our message. Because it really is, can apply to pretty much anyone. It doesn’t matter their age, their demographic, where they’re from, um, what kind of clothes they wear. It can literally apply to everyone in some way, shape, or form. So just please continue to share our message. Subscribe to our podcast. And if you like what we’re saying, and you have the means, please feel free to donate because we want to continue to grow and that link will be in the description for this episode. 

Fabian: Perfectly said, and guys, remember if you’re feeling shy or you’re hesitating to join the community and be public about it, we appreciate and read all emails and all private messages on all our social medias. So, hit us up. Uh, ask a question, share a story. And if you want to write an email anonymously, we love that as well. We are here to help you. We are here to grow together. Change your view on it. It’s not you being a failure or not being good enough. It’s you taking the first step to Becoming Xceptional? Be you. 

Stephani: Be free. 

Fabian: Stay amazing. 

Stephani: Chaminger out.

Fabian: See you guys next time on My 3 Cents.

May 19, 2021

Social Wisdom EP #2: Michael Dudley released

Greetings from Chaminger! Today is a very important day because Social Wisdom EP #2: Michael Dudley released! In this episode we discuss the concept of becoming comfortable with the uncomfortable. Sometimes in life it is way too easy to close ourselves off and end up going through the motions.

Hear the story about how Michael transitioned from a corporate sales job to a start up in the healthcare industry after having a realization that he was not doing what brought him joy and satisfaction in life. Sometimes it is NOT about the money, and finding your passion is the key. Listen to his other advice regarding sales, AB testing and growth mindset!

In other related news, we released our official Social Wisdom trailer today. You don’t want to miss it! Watch it on Youtube: TRAILER!

Check out new episodes every single Wednesday. Remember that we are always looking for guests. Send us an email at if you would be interested to share your wisdom, you never know who will resonate with your journey. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Listen Social Wisdom EP #2: Michael Dudley released

Social Wisdom Episode #2: Michael Dudley Part 1
Social Wisdom Episode #2: Michael Dudley Part 1

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hola from Chaminger. My name is Fabian Chagoya and I’m your host of Social Wisdom. How do you know what to work on to improve? By being exposed to what is actually possible or obtainable. A major goldmine of untapped knowledge and experience is learning from others, Social Wisdom. Be a sponge, save yourself countless lessons and years of figuring it out the hard way by absorbing it firsthand from others. And here we go. 

hey guys. Today on Social Wisdom, we discuss getting comfortable with the uncomfortable with Michael Dudley. So how are we doing Michael?

Michael: I’m doing fantastic, man. I’m, I’m happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Fabian: Thank you so much for reaching out, agreeing to do this. I think there is this almost like, fear that a lot of people have getting interviewed, sharing their advice, sharing their story. There’s like this feeling that, well, I almost got lucky or I don’t know if I want everyone to know the crazy things that I did. Yet, here you are and I think there’s a lot of kudos and respect that I have to give to that.

Michael: I appreciate that, man. I’m going to let you down before I pick you back up. I don’t have all the answers. as I mentioned, uh, I probably know the wrong way to do things more than the right way, but I think that’s the big piece that, um, I, I feel like I, if I can encourage anybody, it’s just, you know, keep trying. Keep trying to listen to people that are two steps ahead of you, because you could probably learn something from their mistakes. And, and maybe if you make one less mistake, that’s, that’s fine. At the end of the day. You’re, you’re not in necessarily one straight path. It’s a wiggle, you’ll get there.

Fabian: I love that. Yes, you guys will always get there eventually and keep listening and it’ll definitely help you.  I want to go into our small talk segment first, before we really get started into discussing your story and your advice and your lessons and go from there. So how have you been with everything that’s happened really over the last, I would say, year and a half. So much has changed. I know I have taken significant risks. My life has changed dramatically. I mean, I used to be much more extroverted and socializing and now I’ve been very, uh, hold up, but by choice and gladly, and I’ve realized a lot of benefits. So, I’m curious, what has kind of changed for you over the last year and a half?

Michael: Yeah, man. Well, I would say, you know, anything that I had, um, set as a, as a normal was flipped upside down. And I think back, as an individual contributor, at a healthcare software company, I did very well. I moved into management and then I, I loved being in that management role because I could kind of be drop shipped into deals. I had to know like very little and I could just basically be kind of submersed in what was going on. Um, and I feel like I could handle that really well. 

So I think at 2000, uh, I guess 2019, I was in about 90 airplanes, uh, flying all over the East coast with some of the reps that I was managing. And it was, it was a whirlwind. I literally was living life like 2020 was going to have a pandemic, I felt like, looking back. And it was a wild ride and it all came to a screeching halt. And so, you know, someone who is very much an extrovert, someone who loves being around people, um, I suddenly had to kind of find joy in other things. 

To be honest with you, for the first time in my life, I did have to kind of deal with a little depression. I had to understand, um, I’m not always going to get these outlets that I was getting before. I’m a kind of person who likes to go to the gym, you know, see my friends have a workout buddy. Not seeing my friends, not being able to work out, not traveling. Even, um, my role was moved from a management role to working on some other projects. 

I think as, uh, at least as, as, as guys, I think girls too, they find, um, a lot of self purpose in how well they’re doing in their role or how well they’re doing at their job, or even just staying active in projects and whatnot. So, I think taking all of that away and there’s only so many episodes of Tiger King before you have to really address what life is and what is this new normal, and how long am I going to be doing this, et cetera. And so, I was kind of forced to like look at my options and I just didn’t see a future where I was. Thankfully I had good friends and they connected me with somewhere. 

Through that process, I also realized that even though I was good at something, I didn’t have a passion for it and so that’s something that I had to learn. And I’m just realizing it just now, you know, I just made the decision to make a move and to leave a company that was only with for a year and that can be tough. At the same point in time, I’d moved from one competitor to another and I only have good things about to say about the organization. For me it wasn’t about whether I was good at it or not. For me, it had to do with, like when I sleep at night, when I wake up, am I excited to do what I’m doing? is this something that I feel like I’m making a difference? Does it feel like I am serving a purpose. 

I remember it was, it was New Years, um, New Year’s night and I got a couple texts from some of my reps that I had managed. They said, you know, happy New Year, you know, miss ya and whatnot and to be honest with you, I broke down crying, man. I was like, what am I doing? Like, this is, this is not something that I want to be doing.

So I just, I texted all the reps that worked for me, Hey, happy new year and then I just sent kind of appreciation texts. Like, Hey, I just loved everything that you did with this and I loved your followup and you did a good job planning. Whatever it was that they were good at, I just sent an encouragement note there.

Not long after that, I was like, man, I gotta do something. So I interviewed for a couple like, uh, pursuing my master’s degree. I was literally at a point where I was like having to make a decision about what is my purpose. And that’s what I’m kind of saying, this is right when I was going through some of this depression of like, what am I doing? I had to do some soul searching. I’m a man of faith, so I, I did kind of like sit back and try to, um, kind of meditate as to what was going to be my future and try to visualize that and do a lot of prayer, but ultimately it just happened to be at the right place at the right time. 

I had a recruiter reach out and it made a lot of sense for me and my background. I had done some fitness competitions and I’ve helped a lot of people with coaching on nutrition and diet as well as also exercise. And then I’ve done some, uh, background in value-based medicine. So, um, what I’m doing now is a perfect fit for me. So it’s like, that is when I knew it was the right point to make a move. I can say that not all the moves I’ve made have been just that evident, so I feel very blessed in that respect.

At the same point in time, one of the encouragements that I would do, and I think this is, this is we all get caught up in it, it’s just to observe your surroundings. And I think if you’re able to do that, things will be much more evident to you. So a good example for you, I mentioned how I was on 90 airplanes in 2019. One of the things I stopped doing, you know, in that start, stop, continue, I actually stopped wearing headphones walking into an airplane. Because for me, it’s like, I didn’t know what was going to happen. Maybe the person next to me was going to start a conversation maybe I didn’t want to be a part of, maybe it didn’t, but I was just going to be open to my surroundings be available to the world around me and who knows what would happen. I ended up having awesome conversations. I ended up being invited to a wedding, uh, for this, couple that was, they had all their family there, going to Miami. So just like these crazy situations. 

We’re living in a world and we try to do so many things to try to keep ourselves comfortable and try to close ourselves off from everybody else. But, um, I don’t think that’s how the world was meant to be. And so that’s kinda why I propose to you one of my tips and one of my biggest, um, I guess, uh, flags that I like to hold up, is just being comfortable in the uncomfortable. Being willing to try things new. Being willing to just embrace the world around you and not feel like you have to kind of shelter yourself or close yourself off.

Fabian: I love that, man.  That was, that was a lot, but I love it. I want to go back a little bit, cause there’s a lot of things that I want to say from that piece. One, I just want to mention that it’s such a pleasure and joy to interview and have a guest that is so used to and comfortable with public speaking and meetings and all that stuff, because there’s just a different dynamic that is there. That initial period of time where you have to like pull out all the questions from them and get them comfortable, like you just get straight to it. So first of all, thank you for that. 

Second of all, I want to say something that I think is absolutely fascinating that a lot of the viewers might not be aware of, is that Michael and I used to work together at the same company a few years back. We knew each other, but it’s almost just the name, or in passing, or at those big conferences, you might just like shake their hand and have a drink together and that’s it. It’s a very short thing. So the fact that now we’re in different roles, we’ve taken our own risks, we’ve done our own journey and we have the opportunity to reconnect, start a new friendship, get to know each other at a complete different level. I think that’s absolutely fascinating to me.

One more thing that I want to mention, I’m curious to hear about you is that. Obviously we were both in sales. It is very interesting to me, all the pieces that you said that you wanted to do and how you felt about for example, you wanted something that had more impact, you wanted something that had more meaning. I just know from a lot of people that have gotten to know me, there’s almost like this initial pushback that they have, because they’re like, Oh, you used to be a sales rep, or you are a sales rep, or you’re always selling, you know? I mean, it’s kind of hard to turn off that switch for us. Cause at the end, everything is a sale, everything’s a transaction I would say. 

It’s just so fascinating to me that you, as a fairly successful sales rep could also take a step back and be like, it’s not just about the money. Obviously, it’s really nice when you get a great paycheck after a lot of hard work and you help the customer, but you actually cared about the end result. And I think that’s something that’s kind of being lost in today’s society and a lot of modern day sales that I was viewed as like, Oh, you’re just, you would say anything to a customer for sale. I’m like, absolutely not. That was actually one of my biggest struggles in my past few sales jobs, where it’s just like, it got to a point where that was like what it was being encouraged. And I’m like, I just can’t do that because I know that I’m going to have to look them in their eyes a year from now and tell them, yeah, this kind of messed you up, your business. 

Once I realized that it could affect their livelihood, their happiness, especially now with COVID, you know, everything is different. No one knows what’s going on. Even people like you and myself that kind of know who we are and what we want can get affected. Like you had a minor depression or anything like that, right? Cause things are changing, you have to completely alter your life. And for me, that was something that really resonated with me with what you said right now was that, as a sales rep, who’s been doing sales for awhile and has had success, could actually take a step back and you wouldn’t just do anything for a sale. So I’m curious to hear a little bit more what your opinion is about that.

Michael: Sure. Hey man, you know, I think a lot of the advice that I gave my rep or that I would give anybody listening to this. I mean, I think they apply to real life as much, if not more than to a saleslife. The reason I say that is like, I take a very honest approach into genuinely caring, genuinely like wanting to ask a question. I’m very curious in nature, so like when I’m in discovery, I feel like I’m in discovery all, all day long, the rest of my life. When I’m at, like a party, I’m rarely the one talking. There’s usually that guy who’s off in the corner, you know, telling his great stories. I’m not that guy. I’m the guy who’s like, Hey, so, you know, I don’t know anything about the insurance business. So like what happens here, you know, if you get to this then when do you get to that? To me, that all is a major part of whether you’re in sales or real life. And I think when it comes to helping our prospects or just working with people in general, they just want to feel that you care, you know? And I think if you take honest, genuine questions and you’re inquisitive and you want to know. You’re not just asking a question to get to where you want to go and to get to that point where you say, cha-ching well, here you go, this is it all packaged up. 

I mean, heck I there’s been times where I’ve been ordering pizza and the guy’s just like, Oh, that’s, you know, olives, that’s interesting. Okay. You know, and they actually care, they’re not just like checking boxes. The same thing with the doctors that I work with, if you truly care, I think it’s genuine and you can sell anything, if you think about it that way. 

Like I would, I feel like I would be a terrible SDR, just like calling people up. I like just having high quality, no rush, just have a great conversation and when you guys leave, you have a bond and you can build off of that. I think that’s hard to do. I did a lot of cold calling in person and I love that. During COVID-19 one of the downsides, uh, Well, first off, I’ll say one of the positives, cause I always like to start positive. I’ve been really impressed with how businesses in general have been able to adapt. And so, um, you know, I was only there with, uh, for this last organization for less than a year and closed three deals and these are large enterprise level deals. And so I’ve been really surprised how groups and whether the practices or businesses in general have still kept their decision-making process, have kept like their business running very successfully. 

However, on the downside, when it comes to prospecting, everyone’s sending emails, everyone’s calling because they don’t have that in-person ability. They don’t have some of the conferences that they had, the events, et cetera. The one downside to COVID-19 is it’s, it is hard to get people’s attention and that day trader of attention job that we have, it is very difficult to break the ice. And so from that perspective, still trying to figure that out, that part’s not easy. But I think if you genuinely care about what you’re selling and you’re not desperate, I think people will be more receptive. 

So I mentioned to you, one of the tools that I use is Vidyard. I just have a membership through them, they’re not sponsoring this at all or anything like that. But for me-

Fabian: They should sponsor us.

Michael: They should sponsor you. That’s an awesome idea. Um, I can put you in touch with the person I work with. 

But for me, it’s a visual, um, like thumbnail that’s at the bottom of the email. It’s actually a gif so it looks like any other picture that’s in an email. But it’s just like me waving and then someone can click it and then it shows me talking to them. For me, it’s like, that’s why I have this mic here, that’s why I have some of this equipment is because for me, it’s like, I have to show my face. I have to have that face, you know, eye contact and have that full discussion because that’s who I am. And that’s the brand that I’ve developed. So, you know, I want to stay true to that even if the world around me is going crazy.

Fabian: Question to you. So obviously a lot changed and I appreciate you sharing all that piece. Did you have VIDYARD before or how did you kind of adapt to, cause we went fully digital. And I think yes, a lot of businesses adapted really well. I agree with you 100%. I mean, look at the world now. Everyone has kind of gotten used to it and now we’re starting to recover from it, we’re slowly, slowly getting back to a new normal, not previous normal. But at the same time, like the world’s gonna be completely different. Right. I mean, I don’t even want to know how many people are going to have anxiety and depression and other mental health issues after this or social skill struggles. But that’s a topic for another time. 

What I’m curious about is I know that a lot of things went virtually like, you know, selling. You had to use exclusively phone calls and video chat, and video chat, especially kind of exploded. So did you already have like some of this equipment beforehand? Did you get that because of COVID and you had to adapt and you learned? Cause I would also argue that so many companies took a long time to adapt. Because one of the biggest things that I’ve noticed and I know you said you’ve listened to a few of my episodes and stuff like that. But for those people who don’t know, I’ve lived in six countries and I lived the diplomat kid life. So I had to constantly start over, start over, start over, start over. Starting over and taking a risk for me is not scary. The only thing that I need to know is that I’ll have enough money to continue living the lifestyle that I want to live. That’s all I care about because you don’t want to sacrifice too much. You don’t want to start like living in a homeless shelter while you know, you’re podcasting. That was the only piece that really affected me, you know, when I take a risk. 

But when you have to constantly start over, you learn, Hey, you know what? I need to pay attention. I need to listen and I don’t need to be the guy that’s always talking. Just pay attention to other people, kind of figure out the room and I felt like it took a lot of businesses, especially like in the restaurant industry, a while to adapt to that. I feel like the medical industry, kind of adapted faster, but I’m kind of curious in your case, how do you feel like, was it very easy for you to adapt and change? And did you apply all these things to the digital world right away? Or was it something that you’ve already been used to from your past, like maybe even your childhood? 

Michael: Yeah, man. That’s, that’s a good question. First off, kudos to you for having lived in that many countries and travel that much and had to like reinvent yourself. I moved twice, maybe three times in my life. You know, when I was 12, moved from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania to Charlotte. Lived in Charlotte for five years, then Virginia Beach. Now I live in Richmond, Virginia, and even then I went to school in Williamsburg. I’ve had to move around a little bit, not as much as you, so, you know way more about that than me, but I do think that there is something to that. I couldn’t imagine just like living in that small town my whole life. And I think maybe, maybe that nature versus nurture there, does have an impact. 

But I would say for myself, um, I kind of do, and this is kind of a motif just in my own life in that, for me, I’m constantly doing AB testing. I’m keeping in my peripheral what I do well and what has been successful and what are those best practices and then I’ll make minor tweaks. And, and I’m always kind of tweaking back to what I know and then trying something new. 

So when I talk about Vidyard, for me, that was, uh, an AB test. Like, Hey, I’m getting a bunch of emails and I was doing, you know, I was using a tool called Sales Loft, that allows you to kind of automate some of this and do cadences. I was doing emails and then I was like, ah, I got to try this. And that would be trying, tweaking new emails, uh, styles. I would be like, eh, this isn’t working, I’m going to do a bunch of calls this month and kind of keep similar messages. As I was doing those, there was one message that seemed to be working. And then I would tweak this and it’d be like no, that’s not working. Let me, let me keep this, but try this and so you’re constantly like revolving around. 

I think a lot of people do that, first off. I think that’s not anything new. I think people in their minds, they’re doing it more than they think they are. But I think what’s important is to remember what those best practices are, because you can go totally the opposite way. Try things totally off the wall and be like, Whoa, where am I? And just, you’re just off in your own zone. So I think there’s a fine line between when you’re understanding, like this is the best practice. I know what works. I want to try this. And I think sometimes people want to try like an AM test like way too far. Versus just like a tiny tweak and just being able to say, well, let me try this opening or let me try this different subject line, but everything else is the same. So you’re kind of just making minor changes and, you know, eventually, um, I feel like eventually you’ll get to what works if you’re constantly doing that. And I think that’s kind of the approach I took just in this one example, but it’s also an approach. I, I feel like I take in life. 

I don’t want to get too far off in crazy land, but you know, a good example, like say the gym. I’m not going to be the guy who’s like, you know, upside down holding some weights, doing something weird, but I am the guy who like, will watch like an Arnold video. I’m like, ah, I like how he’s like laying on a bench really awkwardly and flying out. I like trying new things, I like doing a tweak that’s different than everybody else. I’m the guy that’s, that’s doing the weird thing that no one else is doing. And I like being good at it because I’m doing, I’m doing these minor tweaks.

Another part around that, that I think also has to do, um, a little bit with this, but maybe not as much as I’m thinking in my own head, but I really enjoy the grind of things. I actually really like the progress. When I was in Pennsylvania, this is what I was good at, this is what I wasn’t good at. And you know what, I didn’t accept that I wasn’t good at this. So I did this and this, and, you know, I think growing up, I was kind of a Jack of all trades, master of none, because once I hit a point of diminishing return, it just became kind of boring for me. So I was like always trying new things. So, I was always in like acting classes or music classes, I always had to be around creativity. Uh, but I also loved math. But I liked to do like problem solve, I also can do, you know, on the SATs that had that weird, like walk 30 miles and you walk, like, I love that kind of stuff. That was like my favorite. I didn’t like the boring math, I liked the creative math. And so I think from that perspective, um, you know, I really enjoy the grind. I like waking up at 5:00 AM and going to the gym, have that alone time. And then the rest of my world can go crazy, because I at least had the other side of the coin, the solid aspect of my life, the consistency, because, um, that feels like it kind of counteracts. It was, for me that et cetera thing.

So I’m kind of talking around a lot of what you’re asking. I hope I’m able to tie it all together, but, um, AB testing, enjoying the grind, enjoying the process, enjoying the development from where you are to where you’re trying to go to.

Fabian: So you’d say pretty much. That’s one of your first keys of advice that kind of brought you to where you are today. All of those things, AB testing, enjoying the grind, enjoying the process like it’s literally is a work in progress always

Michael: Yeah, I think a good example would be, I think everyone wants to be standing on stage and winning an award, right? But I don’t enjoy that part. That part’s nice, like, I, I wouldn’t say I don’t like it cause that’s, I’m not, I’m not psycho. It feels great, there’s no doubt about it, but that’s not the goal. If that’s what I was looking forward to, I wouldn’t enjoy the process. So for me, it’s like, I like honing my skill. I like, um, perfecting my craft. I enjoy getting marginally better at something over time. And eventually when I’m on stage, it’s more of a validation. Like when I close a big deal, it’s actually more of a relief. It’s like, all right, cool, I can focus on this now. I’ve been neglecting prospecting, I need to get back out there. I need to do this because I, now I feel, I feel good, I feel relieve though. it’s not like a, yeah, I earned this, like, this is awesome. It’s like a, oh, alright, cool. Now I can like focus on everything else I’ve neglected over the last month trying to close this massive deal. 

So, I think when it comes to enjoying the process, you’re going to get burnt out if you’re just going for that award ceremony. If you’re not enjoying, um, getting better at things, you’re just going to hit a dead end or you’re going to get to a point one day where you just said, geez, like I need to do something now. And that’s why for me, it’s like whether it was applying for my master’s or, you know, uh, I think in February I decided I was going to reach out to 1000, uh, prospects through customized emails. Where I was specifically looking at their website and making a point to go out of my way to, uh, mention something specific that was going to grab their attention, not just, you know, uh, blanketed emails. Um, and you know what? I got burnt out.

Fabian: You got burnt out?

Michael: I got burnt out doing this, but then I said, you know what? This is what I liked about it, which was I did Vidyard, I did a couple of things that I picked up on from doing that experience. So I’m always the guy who is willing to try something new, because I know that if I pick up one thing, if I learn like two or three things, I’ll consider it a success. Even if other people see it as a failure.

Fabian: Well, I love that. I mean, that was exactly where I was going to this. So for me, you said a lot of things that I want to touch back upon. And one of the first things is obviously one of the themes that I am preaching and discussing with the Chaminger brand and the podcast and all this stuff, is really getting people to change your perspective and their view on failure. I think most people have it wrong. Like they view it as literally the worst thing in the world. And it’s why they hesitate to ever try something new. Yet here you are talking about how AB testing is one of the ways to go, because it helps you enjoy the process, but it also helps you perfect, your craft slowly, slowly over time.

So my first question is, were you always into this? Because for example, I feel like it took me a long time to change my view on failure. I was always a little more open to it than I think, for example, like my siblings who have the same life as me and a lot of my friends. But in general, it’s still like, man, when you put in your heart and soul and then it just didn’t work out, you get down on yourself. Especially just the way that I over, I used to especially be a notorious over thinker, I would preplan. I would try to make sure that I cover all possibilities, things that could go wrong and I’m prepared for anything. And then at the same time, I am very good at just improvising. So it’s like, Oh, there’s no way anything could go wrong. Then all of a sudden, you know, you get a left hook jab and then it’s like, you’re knocked out.

So I’m curious, did you always view failure a lesson? Because I know like for example, past relationships, failed friendships. Some of my first jobs, especially when I got into sales, it really changed my view. Like sales, I would say, would be the thing that really made me start viewing failure as a lesson, because I’m like, okay, well this happened, this happened. And then I can start applying it to my past life. And I’m like, well, it’s sucked that I had to move from Denver, Colorado when I was eight years old to Jamaica. And I lost all my friends and I had to go there and I was literally the weirdo. They’re like, why is your skin like this? Why do you talk like this? Why is your accent like this? I’m like, I have an accent? You guys have an accent, you know, like there’s all these things. And it starts getting to you. Especially when you’re a kid, you don’t have like that confidence and that strength. My parents didn’t know either how to support us during that because they were also figuring it out, they were also the weirdos.

For me, it was something that I learned a lot later. So I’m curious, like for the AB test, cause I think that’s absolutely fascinating. I know I always did that with my sales as, like you said, people do it without even realizing. But for me, sales was always fascinating, cause it was like a game of chess. I’m like, Oh, they just did this. The CEO texted me this, I’m like, well, what’s my play now? And it was like, well, he didn’t reply this time. I’m like, okay, tomorrow I’m going to send this with a little, this and this. And then now, Oh, he replied, that worked and so forth, you kind of see what works.

I think because of all my experience growing up and getting to know people and getting comfortable befriending people very quickly, I became very good at what I would call honestly, a super power, is the power of simulation. So I can kind of predict what’s going to happen. So if right now I told you, Hey, Michael,

Michael: I feel like Queens Gambit, just like going up on the, the chess pieces on the ceiling. Yeah.

Fabian:  Exactly. I’m like, Hey Michael, pardon my language, but I’m like, you’re a Dick. I’m like, I don’t like you, you did this. The way you talk about sales is just, you’re just bragging. And what’s going to happen? You, you, might actually hang up on this call if I just started going at you. But if I’m like, Michael, I think your advice is great. There’s a lot of people that actually need to hear this because as much as they can resonate with my message, hearing it from you, not only confirms it, it validates it as well. Now you have a different perspective and they might enjoy or relate to your story more because you’ve lived more of an, a, more of an American lifestyle than I have, so maybe they need that. You’re much more likely to respond. 

So you kind of like start figuring that out. If I did this, what’s going to happen? Like if I tell the client, no, I’m not going to give you the discount. Are they going to stop talking to me or are they going to be like, okay, well, what can we do? You know, like, I feel like that’s kind of where I took AB testing is like, I thought about it like that. But long story short, AB testing, did you always view failure as a lesson? And how did you get to that?

Michael: Yeah, you bring up a lot of good points. I will say that everything I’ve kind of mentioned as, observed at different levels of maturity. You know, I don’t think it’s like something older or younger. It’s like, when the world was like, this is the biggest thing that’s ever happened to me, it was a big deal. When I’m older and more mature and I’ve realized I’ve been through more losses, you just realize, okay, it’s just another loss and it’s less of a big deal.

It’s kind of like that Wayne Gretzky quote, it’s one of my favorite, where you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take. From that perspective, it’s like, you realize, it’s okay. Looking back, we worked together at the same organization, I don’t know, two years ago. Which isn’t that long, if you think about like, you know, your life, but I mean, if I made a mistake or if I failed in front of anyone there, there’s no one that would remember that. I remember there’s one time where I, I asked the question that was literally just said, but I wasn’t paying attention. I felt like an idiot, you know? But at the same point, that to me, that’s something I remember, that’s something I beat myself up about, but literally no one else remembers it.

So if you think about things like that, No one else cares. Like, literally no one cares so why should you. They’re too busy focusing on themselves and their own failures, they don’t care about yours. Yeah, they’ll point it out or joke you about it, but I do think it’s just, just a maturity thing. It’s just being willing to try something new and be considered in the short term a failure, but longterm a winner. So that’s kind of answers part of your question, I think it gets to the meat of what you’re asking. 

I do think, um, you know, I’m thinking about AB testing, now that I’ve been doing it for such a long time. I almost wish I like wrote it down and it’s like, I have a wipe off board. I feel like now I should be writing down what those best practices are so I, I don’t ever lose track of them. But then one of the things that I think is important to understand is the difference between a static mindset and a growth mindset. So, a static mindset would be, I take a test, you take a test, you score higher than me, you’re forever smarter than me on that topic. Versus a growth mindset says, no, you are just smarter than me on that topic or maybe even just more prepared for that topic at that one moment. So, uh, there’s nothing stopping us from taking the same test in a month and me scoring higher than you. It’s not a defined or forever, um, situation. So I think about things like in that, just because I’m not good at golf now, doesn’t mean I’m not going to be good at golf in 10 years. So whether it’s picking up lessons or doing whatever I can to control what I can control to get better at something.

That’s what I’m talking about as honing my craft, I like to get better, incrementally better at things. I hated seeing weaknesses. Um, and there’s still some weaknesses that I’m aware of that I just avoid, because I know that once I do it again, I’m going to beat myself up until I get better at it and I’m going to get addicted to getting better at something. 

From that perspective, um, you know, sports sports are a great example. I remember one summer, um, jeez, it was in Charlotte, so I was probably, I don’t know, 13, 14 years old. For whatever reason, we just had a long summer and my brother and I found a tennis court down the street. And we both just like got rackets at a Walmart and one day we, we just started. And we had a hard time getting the ball over. It was just literally like the most terrible experience of all time, but one of us would figure out a forehand. And then that person had a competitive advantage for probably, you know, a day or two. Then that other person picked up how to respond to that and then they figured out how to respond to it in a way that would put me at a disadvantage. The next thing, you know, by the end of the summer, we knew exactly how we were going to respond to things. We were playing at a, I wouldn’t say competitive level, but, you know, for teenagers, like it was a major improvement in just a matter of two or three months because we incrementally tried to competitively get better at something. 

So I think that’s the, the main perspective for me is like, just because you’re not good at something now, doesn’t mean you can’t get better at it. And I think anyone who thinks that they can’t get better at something is only putting a cap on what the potential is. So I think it kind of goes along the AB testing.

Fabian: You share a lot of great points. I think it brings to mind something that I think is what I call a self-awareness. I think it’s one of the things that is lacking the most in today’s society is that, you speak to, you know, there’s certain things that you should try to improve on and always perfect your craft, but you’re also open to change and realize just because you’re not good at it today doesn’t mean that you can’t be good at it a year from now. So I have two questions about that. 

One is, do you feel like you’ve identified your strengths and your weakness, you know yourself and you’ve set yourself up success. So for example, I always tell people, I know I am absolutely terrible at art. Like I literally cannot draw to save, if my life depended on it, like, I would hope the stick figure-

Michael: It’d be a stick drawing.

Fabian: Yup, like that is like, Pictionary. I always tell people I’m like, Hey guys, can we just, instead of when I have to draw, can I just act it out? They’re like, you want to act it out? Can I talk it out? Like any of that stuff, I would love that they’re like, that’s so much harder. Why would you want to do that? I’m like, it’s not. So that’s one thing.

And then two, I’m just like, certain sports, uh, after a certain point in my childhood. For example, we had to play baseball or football right now, I would struggle. Now soccer, I could probably do okay. But like those other things, we just started living in a lot of third world countries. So my parents didn’t feel comfortable with me going outside and just like playing sports and hanging out with these kids in the middle of the night or whatever. So I stopped doing that a lot so you don’t really practice that, you become more, almost like sedentary in some ways. So that’s not one of my strengths. Could I improve it? Yes. But also it doesn’t necessarily come naturally. So I’m like, okay. I would much rather spend my time perfecting my gift of gab and relationship building and stuff like that because I realized those are my strengths.

So I’m curious if you always kind of knew your strengths and weaknesses and you spend time like trying to get rid of your weaknesses. Or you just are like, that is something that I could spend a year perfecting and I would only be still mediocre. Is that really worth my time?

Michael: I see what you’re saying. Um, the way I would, I would say it is like, say a good example would be, you know, music. My mother played piano for, um, many, many years and taught piano lessons. In fact, she taught like other people’s kids for decades. And I, uh, I took lessons for nearly that same period of time. And that was exciting, I guess, technically. I mean, I got free lessons, everyone’s gotta love that. But I didn’t, I didn’t enjoy it, I didn’t find joy in it. So, um, my mom knew that I didn’t enjoy it and I, I got a little bit better. But I hit that point of diminishing return and I said, you know what? I got here, I learned chords, I understand, I can play all the music you want me to. Like in all sense of completedness like it was done, I was there. I could have gone on and done other stuff, but I didn’t enjoy it. So my mom had to keep wanting me to play drums. And so I took a drum lesson at the local, you know, Guitar Center or whatever it was and took lessons for over two years. And I love playing drums. 

So, you know, for you, it may not be Pictionary. It might be like watercolors or some way that you’re like able to express yourself using art. Um, you know, there’s, there’s so many different ways to express yourself using art that isn’t just, you know, drawing with a pencil or whatever. So, um, it could be clay, a lot of people like molding clay or, or making pottery. So like that’s the perspective that I have is like, Hey, you may not like the, the vanilla flavor, but you might like vanilla with Oreos, uh, sprinkled in or  chocolate chips. Just cause you have to eat vanilla ice cream doesn’t mean you have to eat it, you know, the way everyone else is eating it. 

I know that analogy breaks down pretty quickly, but that’s the perspective that I feel like I take. And I’m the guy that when like bowling, I like to spin it as crazy as I can. I get more gutter balls than anybody there, but for me it’s like, that’s fun and it’s a challenge and I also get cool strikes that everyone’s like, Ooh, that’s cool. If only you can do that every time. So from that perspective, I enjoy, I like to find things that are boring and try to make them, uh, fun. I, I just think that’s how life was meant to be, you know, if you have to do something, might as well just to enjoy it.

So, um, again, I think that kind of, uh, answers a little bit of your question, but ultimately, don’t feel like you have to fit someone’s mold. You can change the mold a little bit to find a compromise where they’re happy and you’re happy.

Fabian: Well, I think continuing on that part, before I hear your next key takeaway which I know we’ve probably already touched upon, but is really the topic of sales. What I mean by that is I feel like a lot of people don’t even know that that kind of job exists and let me share a little bit about that. So my dad being a Mexican ambassador and a diplomat and working for the foreign service, wanted me to follow in his footsteps. Which I get, I mean, he has connections, he can teach me, he can mentor me, he can guide me, he can make recommendations and it can help a lot. But I just thought about having to move again every two to three years and I’m like, yeah, absolutely not, I’m not going to do that. So I really couldn’t, I didn’t find what I really liked and enjoyed after college. I mean, I took business, I took communication. I know I loved like classes where like debate, public speaking, advertising, marketing, but I never really was aware of sales.

And I know that my cousins that had moved from Mexico to the United States were in sales, but I didn’t really know exactly what they were doing as like a teenager. So I remember when I first started looking for jobs that really would make me excited and passionate. I wasn’t finding anything, like I would do something and I’d get bored because it was so easy. I would perfect it right away and I was working way harder then the other people, and I’m like, I’m getting paid the same as them and they’re just slacking off. And then, like, that was a huge thing, which it’s crazy think now that we do sales. It’s like, I found this timeshare marketing slash sales job and it was ridiculously challenging, but it was talking about travel, getting people excited about that. And that was my life, so it was amazing. And I could meet literally like a hundred people a day and get to stop them, talk to them and convince them, Hey, you should probably consider this. And, you know, forming relationships, friendships. It was absolutely insane. It kind of was like an unlock for me and I’m like, this is something that I could do. Plus the harder I work, the better I do, the more money I make. That’s awesome. So that’s kind of how I got into sales. 

So I’m curious about you because, um, there is also a part about burnout that I want to get into after. Cause you mentioned that and I think that’s really important because again, now I’m not doing it. I mean, everything is sales. We talked about it, but in a way I burned out as well, but I want to hear kind of like, what was your journey into sales and what would you say was the part that burned you out?

Michael: Yeah, man, that’s a good one. So, um, I think everyone as they’re teenagers has that person who just nags, well, what are you gonna do when you grow up, what are you  going to do when you grow up. You know, I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I ended up, you know, moving right as my senior year. So I ended up going to a community college, getting my associates degree first and, you know, it was just a broad business degree. Uh, and then it transferred to Wayman Marietta, it’s a college here in Virginia and I went to the business block and, you know, it’s at the point in time, I’m like, I’m getting business major. This would be perfect, going to be doing some business. Yeah. And you’re like, I know exactly what I’m doing now. And you’re like, I don’t know what I’m doing. Um, so what do I got? Finance isn’t for me, you know, accounting is not for me. 

So I went in, uh, they had just gotten rid of an IT degree and they had this consulting degree. I also had a marketing degree, so it was like a double major within the business school, but I actually loved this new consulting degree they had, process management consulting is what it’s called. So we did Excel database management. I learned how to like, actually, I’m one of those guys who loves Excel and just like loves learning V lookups and, and an awesome table. So, I can talk your ear off on that and you don’t want to know, but I hated the actual like, uh, data management, so I could never be like that guy. So, um, that part was cool, but then also like marketing, I liked the creativeness of it. 

When I graduated though, all the jobs were up and up in Richmond here. And so I started actually working for a technical recruiting company. You know, it’s around that same time that I met my now wife and her ex boyfriend, like all most of her ex-boyfriends were like in healthcare sales. She would always be telling me these stories where like they’re watching ESPN every afternoon and just like just working about two or three hours a day and would show up to their hospitals and you know, get their devices. I was like, man, what if someone gave like 110% to that? Like, they’d be making so much more. Cause I already knew that they made a decent amount at what they were doing. 

So I had a mentor at the time, shout out to Chris Sweeney he’s, he’s been awesome, sat down with him. He had a very glorious career in health care sales. I said, I want to get into healthcare sales. I know I would crush it. I love the healthcare aspect of it. Um, what should I do? And he said, if you could sell a commodity, you can sell anything. So whether it was, you know, Paychex and I ended up selling copiers for about two or three years, actually I think it’s close to three or four. Which is way longer than I thought I’d be selling copiers, but I was successful at it. And one of the things I found out while I was there, is I really liked the document management software that was on the copiers that could help businesses be able to be more organized instead of just print. It’s not all just printing. It’s like, I want to be more organized. I wanna be able to scan into something that is able to, you know, um, it doesn’t matter. I’m not going to bore you with that. But the point is, is that I found that the lane I was in and I founded the sub lane that I actually found very passionable. I don’t think that’s a word, but give me some grace here. So I found the, the lane that I was passionate about within the larger lane that I was supposed to stay in. And so, you know, I, I made my number by selling document management software and I was the only one who was selling it.

That’s kinda how life is, you find the joy in the variation of the larger thing that you’re having to do. And so, from that perspective, I liked the software part of document management. So when I moved into healthcare sales, I was looking for software, healthcare sales and so I found the company that we worked at and was successful there and I’ve stuck with it. I like the software, but I also like being able to make an impact on people’s lives. I’ve further tweaked and now I’m finally where I am, but I, I started out here and then I finally got here.

And I think that also kind of goes into the part B of your question, which is how do you avoid getting burnt out? For me, it was like, I had to find that sub lane, I had to find what I’m passionate about. I like to gamify everything. So for me, it’s like, you know, I told you in February, I was like, I’m going to reach out to 1000 prospects this month. I’m just going to do it, it’s going to be a challenge. Maybe in March, I don’t do any and it probably would be better for me to reach out to 500 and 500. Absolutely probably, but for me, like that was the goal and I was going to stick to it. It had already come out my mouth, so I had to fully commit to it.

Um, but I mean, these are like the challenges, you find a way to gamify something, you find a way to find joy in something. Whether it’s, you know, something that you enjoy, like for you, for arts, it might be making a clay pot. There’s that, those things in life, you don’t have to do everything the way that everyone tells you. But there are certain things you have to do, you have to probably pay rent and you probably have to, you know, get a house. But if you like a tiny house, get a tiny house, like no one has to tell you what to do. Um, you just, you know, find what you find joy in and don’t worry about making other people happy.

Fabian: That was a great answer. I mean, the first thing that sticks out to me is that you kind of got into this from other people telling you. I mean, I always find it fascinating to hear how salespeople got into sales, because I don’t think like most people start off, I’m going to be a salesman. Unless your dad was, I feel like that’s not really something that most people think. I know I always was like, I would love to get paid to talk to people, but everyone just kind of laughed at me when I was a kid. They’re like, yeah, that’s not a thing, you don’t just get to get paid to hang out with people. I’m like, yes I do. 

But I think that I really resonate with the fact that you said you kind of like had a mentor and that’s kind of what happened to me as well. That I had my, my cousin who was doing medical device sales. And he, I kind of saw how he did and what he did. And I’m like, man, that’s really cool. I’m like, that’s awesome that this company trusts him to like travel to places and represent the face of the company. I know he was making bank too, that was motivating and inspiring. So it was kind of through him where I also started realizing that. So it’s interesting that we both had like this mentor figure that kind of encouraged us and guided us along.

 One of the parts that truly, truly resonated with me that you said near the end was the part about challenging yourself. And I think too many people almost feel the need and I would love to hear your opinion because I know I keep talking about it on the Chaminger podcast, is people almost feel this need to not change. Like they are who they are, they figured themselves out when they’re like 28, or 30, or whatever, whatever age, it doesn’t matter. And that’s who they are. They befriended like 20 different couples and families. And they all know them as that person, there’s literally no way that they can change from that. 

Now all of a sudden, two years later, let’s say you are now a drummer in the band and you changed your hairstyle and you no longer wear dress shirts. People are going to be like, well, what happened? Like we don’t like you anymore, what’s your problem? And like, you’re still the same guy, you still talk about the same things. We had a conversation like this. You would be able to talk about all this, but people are like, Oh no, he’s completely different. Like what the heck? Like they almost like demonize it. And my question to you is I feel like too many people stop challenging themselves. They figured it out.

 I know at that software company that we worked at, I mean, things changed with the pandemic. But before then, I feel like I had come to a point where I finally figured it out. Like there was this repeatable process that I could do that could pretty much guarantee a sale, as long as they have money. You know, like I could have a process and they would respond well to it. But then I’m like, well, the pandemic forced so much change, product change, and you had to learn how to sell something else. It was very exciting actually for me to re-challenge myself, but I know a lot of my coworkers just ended up doing the same exact thing and they were struggling and I’m like, well, this is a new challenge, why don’t you, um, rise up to it? And it, that causes so much change. So I just, I guess what I’m trying to ask is If you embracing challenge was something that always came naturally to you, because I feel like I know a lot of people that don’t like that they want it to be easy, they want their job to be on autopilot. I feel like once they get to that point, that’s when I get bored and I want to do something else or I want to constantly improve because if I’m already succeeding today and I figured it out, well, I could get better. You know, I could challenge myself. Like, let’s say with this podcasting, I’m like, well, how can I figure out how to do more episodes? How can I reach more people? How can I increase the exposure? Like we might be killing it today, but why can’t we kill it even more tomorrow? You know? So I’m curious to hear about that.

Michael: Yeah, I think, I think people don’t like change in general. In fact, even I’ll be honest, I don’t always like change it to start. To me it’s like I was telling you about earlier, there’s things that I’m not good at that I’m aware I’m not good at, and I’m not going to try it until somebody says, Hey, let’s all start doing this. And I’ll say, all right, you know what? I know that I’m not naturally good or gifted at it, but I’m actually looking forward to finding that little sub lane that I, I do enjoy. And so for me, it’s like, it’d almost like a curiosity joy of like, I know I’m going to like some facet of this new normal, I’m kind of excited to find out what that is. 

I think from that perspective, you have to be able to adapt. I mean, I think in, especially in sales, I think sales would probably be one of the most adaptable parts of business out there. Same with marketing too. Gary Vaynerchuk talks about, you know, we’re day traders of attention. Uh, and you know, one of his claims to fame was that, he was, you know, one of the first to do like Google ads back in the nineties, when everyone wasn’t doing that, then everyone was doing it. And he had and then when everyone else was doing it, then he got into Facebook and then everyone was on Facebook then. Everyone who, back in the nineties, was mailing things to people’s homes. Now, no one was mailing, so he’s like, I’m going to go back there and now I’m going to start mailing people things. So it’s kind of like, you have to do the exact opposite of what everyone else is doing, or you’re not going to get the attention.

So, you know, I’ll be honest, you know, that this morning I checked my Vidyard and like the last three videos had zero views. Meaning that the last three prospects I emailed out, didn’t see it. So I said, Hey, you know what scrap where I thought this AB testing was going, I’m going to go back to where that best practice was. So I looked back and I literally watched the last video that somebody watched. I said, why would someone watch this? What was different about this than, than what I just tried? That is something you have to realize is like, Hey, I’ve gotten too far away from that best practice. I do need to back up, get back to my roots, get back to that center and then start back out from there. 

I think though, if, if you aren’t in that growth mindset, you’re going to probably think that way where you’re going to say I’m going to keep doing what I know. If people are really like that, um, they may not enjoy sales because you, you really have to adapt. I mean, there are so many other things you could do every day that, that you don’t have to change. You can, you can keep doing the same thing every day.

What I love about sales is that you can be creative. You can try things that are new and honestly, the new things are celebrated. When I talk to people about Vidyard, they’re like, geez, you know, no wonder I’m not closing deals. I’m like, Hey, I’m not guaranteeing you close these deals, I’m just trying like, this is one thing that you can have under your belt. One piece of your arsenal that you can, you can try. And if it doesn’t work for your audience, like may not work for, uh, you know, if you’re selling bulldozers, it’s probably not going to work for you. They might not have like a laptop in front of them or something, they can just click on things.

So, I don’t know. It’s, it’s things like that where things don’t always work for everybody the same. Um, but I think to your original question is for those people who, um, are close-minded and kind of have that static mindset, I can’t give you advice on to how to think outside the box. All I can recommend is try something new that you enjoy, and if you enjoy it, enjoy getting better at it. And I think if you, if you enjoy it and you enjoy getting better at it, I think change will be much more welcome today than, than it has been.

Fabian: I think, well, one Vidyard, would love to talk to you guys. I think that’s so cool, by the way, that they have, um, a video thing. For example, I know that I always just completely kicked ass with customers. Like they loved it when I was there in person and you can hang out with them and just because of my Mexican German heritage, I would always be like, at the end, like, Hey man, I’m a hugger. And like, people would be a little uncomfortable at first, but now they’re like, Oh, are we already at the point where we were hugging? And I’m like, okay, I get it. And then, you know, that, that was just completely different about giving me their cell phones or whatever. And people are always really shocked. Like how do you get this super cold person, dude? That was something that I really could fully embrace in person. And then you go full digital, it’s a little more challenging to do so, so kind of eliminating that barrier. 

And there’s just something different about like, if, you know, I just think back to, I got a Peloton recently so that I could exercise at home, because like you said, the gyms being closed. And like after 50 rides, you get a message from one of the instructors on video by email, they’re like, Hey, congratulations on your 50 rides. We appreciate you. Thanks for being part of the family. You’re making progress. Remember to check back to where you-, you know, just something like that. And yes I know that it wasn’t just made exclusively for me, but the fact is that they had that video message. It, it hits differently. I’m like, I know what they’re doing and it’s still hit differently. So imagine if someone who’s not aware of what is actually happening in the background and why they did that, how they did it. That’s just crazy to me. And I think that’s a really cool thing that just sets you apart because at the end of the day, people pay attention to things that are different. So I love that. 

And then two, I, just kind of want to summarize, because I know it’s been a great conversation, but it sounds to me like from everything we’ve talked about, I would say that another key of advice that you would have is approach this growth mindset. Don’t be static, embrace growth, embrace change, and just really get comfortable with being uncomfortable because it puts you in scenarios and situations where you can actually improve.

Hey guys. Thanks for tuning into Social Wisdom. This concludes this part. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we love making it. Please leave a comment on our social media, mentioning what parts resonated with you from our guest and if you gained some wisdom. 

As always, don’t forget to follow us on all our social medias to get the full #BecomingXceptional experience. Remember, stay amazing and tune in next week to hear more Social Wisdom. Chaminger out. 

May 18, 2021

Real Talk Episode #6 released & New Clubhouse Giveaway

Hola my fellow Chamingers. A few announcements. Real Talk Episode #6 released today! We are also doing a new Clubhouse + Amazon Giveaway. Make sure to listen and read the transcript to our latest episode of this Real Talk discussing the realities of having to move to Jamaica from Colorado as a kid. Having to learn how to start over from zero teaches you perspective and humility as long as you can properly reframe your mindset!

***GIVEAWAY ALERT! We are celebrating 1 month of our podcast being live with another giveaway. This is a very special one because we are also going to be discussing a few major announcements to our brand and podcast. We are giving away clubhouse invites and $75 worth of Amazon gift cards. Don’t miss it! Check it out HERE

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Are you ready to have the real talk with yourself? It is time to listen to someone else continue their self-reflection journey and see if you can relate or do the same things. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Listen to Real Talk Episode #6 released today!

Real Talk Episode #6: Reframing your Mindset Part 2
Real Talk Episode #6: Reframing your Mindset Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hola Amigos. My name is Fabian Chagoya.

Alejandro: And I am Alejandro Chagoya. 

Fabian: And we’re the hosts of Real Talk, a show all about the journey of self-improvement and getting to know oneself in which we discuss the harsh truths related to finding success. 

Welcome back to Real Talk by Chaminger. Thank you for joining us as we continue our previous discussion on the journey to Becoming Xceptional, since this is a multi-part episode. If you’ve not watched a previous segment, we highly recommend it for context, but feel free to continue and experience the valuable message delivered in this episode, regardless.

We appreciate you. We hope you enjoy today’s Real Talk.

I want to hear, like, maybe give us one or two examples of a situation that happened, like outside of school that it was like, Oh my goodness, what is this? Um, did you have any of those moments?

Alejandro: Just as a general overview, uh, for example, we had the whole issue of Colorism. Which was an interesting concept for me at the time, I wasn’t overly familiar with that. We had the discrimination between the Jamaican people themselves between how, how dark or light skin their color was which was certainly quite a revelation for me at the time. And apparently even newspapers favoring people, or slandering them basically, by coloring their skin tone either lighter or darker, just rather shocking for me.

I mean, one thing that was also different was that we were living in a gated community. And I think that was also one way, that we had that sort of separation between the culture shock. That in one hand, we basically huddled together as a family in our home and then outside was everything else. And I think that really marked the sort of stark contrast, in a way. I mean, it sounds kind of bad in the putting it like that, but that was, in a sense, the reality. 

Of course, we got to learn a lot more about the people and the culture. Like Fabian, for example, wound up being on his school soccer team, we’ll get more into that in a little bit. We definitely made some friendships and got to know people and what have you, but there were certainly a lot of learning experience to go with the culture.

Fabian: I think you said a lot. The color issue alone. I mean, it’s crazy to think because obviously we can’t relate because yeah, we’re more olive skin tone than white, but still we are considered-

Alejandro: you are more, so, I mean, I’m fairly pale here.

Fabian: Nothing a good vacation can’t fix, but it was crazy to think that, to be frank, like I view it as you guys are all dark. I don’t really see a color difference, but to them, it was like they saw white as chalk versus black as the night sky. And when you think about that, it’s kind of mind blowing that people just each view themselves and each other so differently based on their own experiences and what they were exposed to.

Looking back at it, you just see it. Oh my God. Like these guys lived a completely different world than we did. They were worried about who was dark Brown versus who was black. And that’s crazy to think about. When there’s so much other stuff going on. I mean, just the year before that, we had 9/11 and the U.S. was completely changing their airport security. Then we go to Jamaica and you could just sneak anything in there and no one cared because it was just a different world.

But the gated community piece really resonates with me because it really was like, you leave this gate, you’re going out into the real world. You stay in here and you’re safe, you’re protected, you can be with your family, can do your own thing. It really was that way. And I can relate and we’ll get into it more. But, I walked to school half the time with my mom. So you’re walking to school, maybe a mile or two. You walk half a mile and you start seeing broken down homes and people just have their chairs out in front and they’re just literally smoking weed and it’s 8:00 AM and they’re just out there, they have nothing else. They have pet goats, they have pet chickens and that’s their life. They don’t even have a job. And you see that as a kid. And you’re just like, okay, interesting, very interesting. 

I guess one of the things that I’m interested to hear for you is, that always resonates with me, is just things that impacted me as a kid. One of those activities was going to the movies. So do you have any stories that relate to that? Because I feel like it was very different in Jamaica compared to what we were used to.

Alejandro: Ah yes, there were certainly some interesting things that came up there. For example, one of the first times we went to the movies, we go there and we’re sitting in the theater. Before the start of the movie, an announcement comes on and on the screen as well. And it says, everyone please stand and prepare to sing our glorious national Anthem. I’m like, what’s going on here? So then they start a recording of the national Anthem starts playing and everyone stands and sings. And that was a very unique experience for me. I had never experienced the like since. 

I mean, it’s good to be patriotic, there’s no harm in that. Versus say nationalism, but let’s not get into that obviously. But yeah that was certainly quite an interesting experience to see that they had this this patriotism to them. And it was also interesting to learn, for example, as we would see later that they were also very deeply religious, spiritual people.

Fabian: For sure. I mean, it was crazy to think that they were singing the national Anthem at the movie theater. I just think about like going to every movie here in the U.S. and if we would sing the national Anthem before every movie, but to be fair, in school, we grew up with saying the pledge of allegiance every day. So like, how different is it? And like there’s similarities. 

But the thing that always blew my mind was that Jamaica, this culture where kids were almost less monitored and restricted. Everyone kind of just did their own thing because it was almost like the wild West, but it really was just on an Island. You would go to like these places that you needed to have more money. So like a mall or a movie theater. And there were these insane restrictions. I remember “The Lord of The Rings” came out. Tell us about that.

Alejandro: Oh, yeah, the previous year, in 2001, “The Fellowship of The Ring” came out, the first of “The Lord of The Rings” trilogy. So we were excited, come the next December when we were in Jamaica, to go see “The Two Towers”, the sequel. 

We arrived to the cinema and suddenly it turns out that like, Oh, you’re not 16 years old. Sorry. But, you can’t, you can’t see the movie. It’s like, wait, what? So pretty much they had a certain age restrictions that were more stringent than what we’d had been accustomed to. Even with parental accompaniment, you could not go see the film. So we were absolutely stunned and quite disappointed. So we had to head home and we couldn’t see the movie until a fair bit later.

Fabian: All that blood, that ork blood, can’t have that.

Alejandro: All that ork blood. And to be fair, to be fair. I remember reading a critic review, at the time, of the movie saying it was a great film and also lamenting that there’d be for sure a number of people who would also be upset. Precisely about Jamaica’s curious age restriction on the matter. And it wasn’t just this film. There were also some other movies as well. There was one other instance. I remember, I think it was, uh, “Catch Me If You Can”, if I remember correctly. We also went to go see that and we were also denied. You’re like, Oh, once again, once again, Jamaica.

Fabian: That’s insane to think about. That this place, that you’re in the middle of nowhere, it’s kind of like, Hey, no one, no one’s going to tell, no one’s going to see. Just let it happen, what’s the worst that can happen? But no, they were so strict about that because it was almost like the more “elite”, well off families could go to those things. And the other people really couldn’t. They just wouldn’t go to the movie theaters, like the locals, the poor people. So those like rich Chinese families and stuff like that, they wanted their kids not to be exposed to those things. So they’re like good, good restrictions. And you’re like, no.

So it’s just interesting to see, but I think this kind of really.

Alejandro: Just as a quick aside though, that you brought up the rich Chinese families. For our viewers, we should point out that there was actually a significant influx of Chinese immigrants. And Fabian was a friend of a family of some of them from his school. So I just, I just thought I should point that out.

Fabian: Yup. Yup. It reminds me, well, let’s talk about the school experience. I mean, it was super unique and interesting. Curious to hear your experiences versus mine. But, I went to this school that there was an entrance exam, we talked to the principal and all these things. And I had the opportunity, purely because of age, not because of intelligence, even though I’m sure I would have based on that, the opportunity to skip a year. And I took it in a heartbeat. I mean, that’s always who I was. I hated school. I never was a fan. I wanted to minimize the amount of time doing that. And I’m like, yes, saving a year.

Alejandro: Now I understand that you were an overachiever for time as well.

Fabian: Yup. I mean, you can hate school and still be an overachiever. Like I wanted to be the best at it, but I didn’t want to do it. I much preferred staying home and doing my own thing. 

So I got the opportunity to skip a year. But it was also interesting because now you’re at this Catholic school that you go to church at least once a week, sometimes I think two. There was also religious class that you were graded at, testing you on the Bible and all this stuff. And you also were the only white guy. There was two white people, including myself, in this entire school and he was in the same grade, but in another classroom. So it literally was, like, you’re walking through there and you’re like this alien. Everyone stops, I mean, eventually people got used to you, but at the beginning, people stopped as you’re walking by. It’s like, Oh, Oh, hello. Who’s that? So it’s just super interesting to see that. 

I don’t remember if we arrived the first day of school or not, because that was one of the problems of my dad’s job. That sometimes we, by the time we made it to a new country and were properly transitioned there, the school had already been going on for a few weeks or months. Every country has different timeframes. Like in the U.S., historically you would end like maybe like in the beginning of June or the end of May and you would start sometime in end of August, when other places you would maybe end like in the middle of July and start in the middle of September. So, I don’t remember if it had already had started or not. But I do remember that the first day I got there, my teacher, Mr. Ashley. Best teacher in the world, he’ll tell you that if you asked him, he’s like, Hey everybody welcome our new student from the United States of America. It was almost like this moment where everyone was clapping, like the hero comes back from destroying the aliens and everyone’s super excited I’m from America. And then he’s like, okay, how about you pick some songs for us to sing for devotion. And I’m like, like, do I need to pick like, Backstreet, Brittany Spears songs?

I’m like first, I don’t know what the devotion is. I don’t know what song we were talking about. And then eventually I convinced him that someone else should do it. And then I’m like, Oh crap, everyone stands up and they all start clapping. And it’s all religious songs. I’m like, Oh my goodness, what is happening? 

So that was kind of my foray into the Jamaican school. And I do want to talk about what the sixth grade meant for me, but I want to hear your initial impressions and experiences of being like one of the few white guys and how that school experience was. I mean, if I recall correctly, you went to a male-only school.

Alejandro: That’s correct. Yes. Walmer’s boys school was where I went to, apparently fairly prestigious school in Jamaica. It was very, a very interesting experience, besides of course the fact that I was just going to be surrounded by male students, as opposed to as it was in the United States, both girls and boys. It was certainly quite an experience on so many levels.

Wow, it’s like, where to start… One interesting thing was obviously as we said, Jamaica as British colony, British influences. So right off the start, we are sorted into houses. Very much like, for those familiar with “Harry Potter”, that’s exactly how it was. Obviously that would come into play more in terms of the sports day, which was a really big deal.

When we were in Colorado, we were the top of our class. As we said, in our previous talk, we were at the top of our game when we wrapped up. And we were A+ students pretty much. I think both my sister and I got like a special award because we were the top of our year and A in everything. 

When we moved there and went to their school, I only found out this later on, but apparently, they didn’t actually believe it was possible that I could score as high, highly as I did. So, how they had it set up was that they would divide the classes into different letters, according to Walmer’s name, was the founder of the school. And it would be based on your grades. So I was basically put into some sort of intermediate class initially. After some months, they wound up changing me to a different class. But yes, initially, I was with a certain group of students as a result of that, because they simply didn’t believe it was possible to score as highly as I did.

There were then some other elements, obviously. One thing about Jamaica is that they have a certain, um, how should we put this, dialect, we could call it, I think. Hopefully I’m using the word right, called Patois, which is a mix of several different languages. Depending on, uh, both, you could say that the education level of the speaker as well as how I guess they, they chose to present themselves. It would affect how, how you’d be able to interact and understand the people.

So sometimes you be talking to people, to some classmates for example, in my case with school, obviously. I know my parents had some complications understanding some people. But yes, in school they were a couple of classmates of mine that I had trouble understanding. And I remember turning to another classmate who spoke a little, you could say a little more proper English, I guess. I mean, that sounds bad. I’m sorry, but that’s kind of how it was. And he basically had to interpret for me at times, at least initially, and afterwards I started becoming more accustomed to, to how some of them spoke. 

I remember once even one classmate said that, depending on who he would talk to, that it would impact how he would, to what degree he would speak. Like with a fellow Jamaican, he might engage in Patois, whereas opposed to like someone like me, he would talk in more proper English, “proper” of course.

One thing that stood out for me, I don’t think was necessarily the case with you, was that then trying to connect with my fellow students. So there were a couple who spoke slightly more proper English than there were a couple, I remember two classmates. One who was, I think, a Canadian Jamaican and another who was Jamaican American, I guess. One of his parents was from New York originally. That’s, that’s I was a way for me to connect a little bit more to something that was slightly more, more familiar, more relatable. Afterwards from there, I was able to, um, come to learn and appreciate more of the Jamaican culture. But I think that was a helpful sort of a stepping point initially. 

But yes, also same with me with devotions, for example, again. From the start, I’m like, Oh, wow, we’re starting off here and they want to start singing and I’m like I don’t know any of these songs. I’m going to try to more or less lip sync or something. And then one of the people then said, Hey, we noticed you don’t seem to know the songs. Are there any songs you want to have us sing? It’s like, wow, I don’t know these songs. I mean, I didn’t say it at the time, but this wasn’t simply part of our religious tradition, the singing and the songs that they have. I came to learn a lot of songs, just like Fabian did, but there was certainly quite an experience. 

As for the skin color issue. Yeah, there were certainly some exchange students. There was, I remember one former classmate, in the first class I was in, that was of, of British origin was also white.  One interesting, funny story about that actually, but I’ll get to that in a minute. Because of our skin color and coming from the United States, they naturally assumed that we were well off, we were rich essentially. And I was hard-pressed to try to convince them otherwise, which left me in a very awkward position. My dad, as he worked at the diplomatic section of the Mexican embassy in Kingston, Jamaica working for the ambassador there. And so he sent once the embassy’s limo driver to come pick me up and I’m like, wow. Wow, wow. Wow. This is, this is not helping my case at all, at all. 

And also regarding the racial issue and funnily enough, the Chinese thing you brought up. I think I mentioned this to you once before, but I remember once talking to a classmate, who I kind of considered to be a friend, and then all of a sudden he stops and says, he laughs and he says, you know, you look exactly like Jackie Chan. And I’m like what, okay. This was completely unexpected. I didn’t say anything, but I’m like, I’m going to take this as a compliment. This is mind blowing for me. I remember the year before, “Fellowship of The Ring” comes out. Apparently some classmates think I look like Elijah Woods, so I’m, I get the nickname Frodo. And now I have this new friend here saying I look like Jackie Chan. So that’s interesting.

 It does remind me that apparently the guard at our gated community thought our dad was Chinese. And so he, he referred to him as the Chinese console, which was certainly something interesting to say the least.

Fabian: You just shared so many crazy stories, hilarious moments, and it just goes to show you  people live almost like in this little bubble. And then there’s this extra bubble that’s floating outside of their safe zone. And they’re like, well, what is this? And what did they know? They know Bruce Lee, they know the Kung Fu movies and they’re like, they know the rich Chinese, and that’s what they associate with. And it goes to show you that how much is all based on people’s previous experiences, knowledges and biases. Like that’s what, how they judged us and lived.

Alejandro: Right. And speaking of biases,  I just remembered one other point I was going to add, was funnily enough, as they thought we were going to be the rich people, but when we were moving there, I knew we were going to basically a prep school as it was, a private, private school. So I was thinking that I was going to come across these snooty snobby sort of, well-to-do family, uh, uh, students from rich families in Jamaica. And it turns out they thought the same of us. So it’s kind of hilarious in retrospect, both sides had that preconceived notion.

Fabian: What did you think going from Mexico, U.S. Basically, Mexico is always like a 1.5 world country, they’re in the middle of like second world and first world, to be honest. And then you go to the U.S., which is a first world country, and then now you’re moving to Jamaica, which truthfully is a third world country. Even though we lived more like in a second level. As in, we had all the amenities, you know, water, food, all that stuff, electricity, internet, even if it was dial up, or whatever it was. Comment for another time, technology and the changing of that.

But curious to see how it was for you going from those things where, you know, in Colorado, we were considered okay. Above average, but we weren’t considered millionaires or super rich or snobby. And yes, my dad did get a promotion and a better position, but then you move to Jamaica and all of a sudden we are considered gods. We’re considered part of the elite, we’re considered in the same bubble as like those rich Chinese business owners that are millionaires. How was that experience? What are some of those takeaways that you had from all these crazy judgements and culture shocks of Jamaica?

Alejandro: Yes. I mean, yeah, I think it was certainly a time to sort of also reassess ourselves. Like you said, the perception of us being the elite versus our perception of ourselves as a sort of being your middle-class American family. 

I remember that in one of the, um, I think it was the Independence Day celebration that our dad was overseeing. I’m pretty sure we had an appearance from the Prime Minister of Jamaica at the time. I’m pretty sure I shook hands with then Prime Minister, PJ Patterson, if I’m, not mistaken. So I mean, that just shows, like you said, the sort of circle that we were surrounded with. We were engaging with diplomats at these social events, that we had to interact with. Certainly a learning experience having to also deal with hosting and whatnot. These sort of obligations that you had, as a result. Which  I wasn’t particularly keen on, I’ll be frank. 

Fabian: Well, there’s a lot to be said about Jamaica, as evidence from all these stories. There was a lot of craziness and uniqueness. I do want to share a brief thing that kind of really summarizes how different it was. 

Since I skipped a grade, I was in sixth grade and sixth grade is the most important year in Jamaica. It’s the end of elementary school. 

Alejandro: Ohhh, that’s right. 

Fabian: And you have to take a statewide exam called GSAT. Which they probably stole from SATs, but this GSAT determined which middle school or really high school, cause they kind of combined them into one, you were qualified or able to go to. So the better your grades on this exam, the better access you had. So you chose like three to four schools that you preferred and if you had good grades, basically every school had like a range. So they were like, we only accept students from 75 to 100. Or this school accepts students that get 25% on their SATs or GSAT, sorry, and so forth. So basically what this meant was if you failed this exam, and this is how they presented it to you as well, the teachers, if you failed this, your life is going to be essentially ruined because now you’re going to be only in schools that only have failures.

And to me, that’s shocked me because I’m like you’re creating a self fulfilling prophecy. If you surround yourself with only druggies and violent people and dumb people, you’re going to be dumber, more violent, and more prone to doing drugs. So I’m like, what are you guys doing? But at the same time, there’s something to be said about separating all the problematic people away from the others.

I mean, there’s a lot that can be discussed about that and we don’t have the time to get into it today, but it just blew my mind that this year had such importance in this country, it meant everything. The entire school year was basically just prepping for this exam. Like I remember all Christmas break and between Christmas and March, I think you took the exam in April, every day in school, we just took a practice exam or two. 

And it got to the point where there was repeated questions on these exams. They had practice exams, the website, or they have books written and you could recognize it. They just change the numbers, but you kind of could tell. So they were like, well, what’s the percentage of this. Or, Hey, if this volcano did this and this and this, what would happen? Like you, you kind of knew what you were getting into and I could, it was multiple choice, so I could almost choose the answer without even reading the question. And that’s almost bad, but I mean, that’s just was the culture. 

There also was, every year they chose a random subject. So some years it was math. Some years it was science, some years it was geography and Jamaican history. Which was a big part of the exam, learning which Jamaican athlete won the bronze medal at the Olympics in the 1970s or whatever, because it was such a big deal for them. They would test you on 9th or 10th grade science or math and you never were exposed to these or learn these things. 

The year that I took it the test that was the ninth grade level was science. So they literally were like, okay guys, this year we’re doing ninth grade science. You’re like we’re in 6th grade, why are we doing ninth grade science? Like, it literally makes no sense, but it is what it is. And it’s a mind blowing thing. It’s just how the country was. It was very outdated. It was probably based on some British tradition or exam and that’s how they lived their life.

My parents were super nervous about it, but I think I was the 15th best student in the entire country or whatever, something like that, on the exam. And that’s really crazy because not only did I skip a year, but I did put in a lot of work. But it also, I didn’t really study a lot and it really started showing me who I was already at that time. I remember my mom will always tell the story that the day of the exam, everyone else is like reading a book hours before, in front of the classroom or in the big areas, like the basketball courts with their parents. And everyone’s like crying and worried. And I just looked at my mom, I’m like, you know, I probably should have studied a little more. Because I think I, other than what we did during class, but I mean, we’d practiced for months.

I maybe studied for like a week, literally. These people, like would pay tutors and everything and do it every day. And it was just crazy, but it made me realize that I was so confident at that time. Like I knew my stuff. I was confident. I knew I was good. And there’s something to be said about that.

And then that’s kind of where I really wanted to finish today’s episode is two things. One, is the question of uniqueness versus weirdness. We were so unique, we were weird for the locals, but did you embrace that? Kind of like, I feel like I really did. I just honed in on it at that point. It was still pretty fresh in all our moves. Like it was still early on in our moving career of our life. And I didn’t desperately try to fit in, I was still myself. I did respect the culture and I learned about it, but I didn’t really change who I was deep down. And I feel like that was great. I was very confident. I was me and it was, it was awesome. But kind of curious to hear your piece on that. Did you feel like you were unique? Do you feel like you desperately tried to fit in or did you feel like you would lost confidence because you were the weirdo?

Alejandro: I mean, certainly there was no avoiding that I was definitely going to be unique because of a number of life circumstances and appearance as well. On one hand, yes. I certainly was always myself. I had always my strong beliefs and convictions and I feel like as a result of that in my determination, hard work ethic, that I won the respect of a lot of my peers. Even some people that I first initially clashed with, then we ended up becoming friends. I remember one such classmate in particular. Over a book report, actually it was, we ended up finding some commonalities. 

I do recall that there was some, to some extent, I think there was this idea of not wanting to stick out too much in one way. I remember that I think the teachers were trying to, uh, one of them was sort of complimenting me, as an example. As opposed to other members of the class. I think I remember commenting to a friend of mine that I think it was a little uncomfortable about it because I didn’t like having it called to attention that I was standing out in that way, compared to the others. That, I don’t know, that making them look bad in comparison. I think that that made me feel a bit uncomfortable. On one hand, of course I always wanted to, I was at the time, very much an overachiever and wanted to be the best I could, but at the same time, I also felt uncomfortable sort of putting the others in that position.

Fabian: That’s super interesting. You had this internal turmoil about, Hey, I enjoy this. I’m an overachiever. It’s good to get that acknowledgement. But at the same time, I don’t want to feel that way. So I’m curious because this was such a critical part of your identity and who you are and your confidence. You were tying so much to your self worth and your level of confidence to your success at school. So having these, I mean, you were surrounded by people that you probably were doing a lot better because you had different curriculum and you had teachers telling you that you’re doing well. Was that a confidence boost? Or did you almost like not want to be singled out? I know you had mentioned that a little bit. Or did it almost, was problematic because you already were so singled out because of your appearances and language and background that you were like, no, I don’t want that.

Alejandro: Certainly. Uh, I think there were really mixed feelings about it. I definitely appreciated the validation. As we have made the point in previous episodes that I put a lot of emphasis on excelling in school and that was my source of validation of who I was as a person. And yes, I guess with that contrast there, like you were saying. That was certainly something very interesting, especially now that I think about it. I mean, that put me in quite the quandary as I saw it. I mean, I don’t know if it was necessarily because I was concerned about bullying or anything on the matter. I know I certainly clashed with some people, though I did handle it rather tactfully. 

And then there was a funny story.    We were playing soccer and I accidentally did a sliding tackle and took down one of my bullies as a result, because of the muddy terrain. Everyone was really impressed because they’re like, Oh wow, look at Alejandro. He took down this giant of a guy with a sliding tackle. One time he was complaining about, I think some art class thing and my drawing. And I’m like, well, why are you wasting your time watching me do my art here if it’s so bad. I mean, you’re wasting your life doing this, you should have better things to do. I remember I had another classmate, a friend of mine, congratulate me on that one. 

Yes,  our American influence definitely stood out there with our English. I mean, there was the same language, but there was also these differences there with the accent. And it was really put in stark relief, just engaging with my classmates, with the people there. And of course, I really came to respect a lot of people, my teachers, my peers. There were many capable and intelligent people, let’s not forget that.

Fabian: Well, let’s go from there. Let’s start transitioning.  Obviously Jamaica was a lot and we could talk about it for days and years. I mean, there was so much, it was such a big adventure and part of our lives, but I want to talk about the lessons, and if you had realized them when you were there.

So for example, for me, I would say Jamaica taught me change and adaptability. And that’s something that is going to be a common reoccurring theme throughout every single move and every single place, because every place taught me that and forced me to do that in different ways. Skipping a grade and learning to embrace this exam and being so religious and living in this sheltered gated community and only having family and et cetera, et cetera.

All those things taught a lot, but having to change and adapt and be a chameleon, yet fit in, but also, still be you in your own ways was huge. But at the same time, it was now looking back at it, Jamaica really not only humbled me, but what started the biggest turning point in me becoming a lot more cultured.

It was around this point where our family started traveling more internationally as well to other places other than Mexico and Germany. We had the opportunity to go to London and down the road, we went to Prague and things like that. We went to so many different countries and got to experience different life styles. 

Living there is when you really get the feel for the country and the culture and just seeing how different they lived and that we could live live there. Yeah, we lived in our own little bubble, but it was never to the extreme that a lot of the diplomat and military kids do. Where they live in their own mansion, they go to the 5,000 a quarter school, where they only go to school with other diplomat kids and military kids where you’re living basically in the U.S., you know, In your own bubble. And we got to actually experience the culture, the locals, and live with them and embrace it. And I feel like that gave me so much, it humbled me to an extent. 

 While yes, I’ve always, and I still can gladly admit this, I’ve always had like this bougieness and eliteness to me and appreciation to quality and niceness and fanciness. It made me really like, I’m so glad I was exposed to that because it gave me like this respect for other cultures, other skin colors. From that point forward, I was confident that I never could ever be racist because you know what? I got to live with those people for a full year, a little over a year. You realize that, at the end of the day, they’re the same people. They’re just very different and they grew up differently. 

So I would say, the lessons that I had from Jamaica were, it really started this change and adaptability to a next level because while Colorado and Mexico did that to me, this was so different and that humbleness and starting this major level or level up of being cultured.

So curious to see and hear your takeaways of the lessons. And then we will conclude with what’s coming up next.

Alejandro: Absolutely. Yes. Wow. I mean, once again, I completely agree. It was really our first exposure to a completely different culture and it was really something to learn, to have to adapt there. I mean, in Colorado, in Denver, at the school I was at previously, it was a brand new school, had state of the art tech at the time. And then like, Oh, go to Jamaica. I’m at this prestigious school, but at the same time, it’s we have this, um, all this wooden furniture here, there’s no air conditioning in my classroom. I’m doing assignments and exams while sweat is dripping down my body. I’m wearing this military style, khaki uniform. We are adapting to the language, to the culture. There’s so many different elements, all male school. 

But like you said, this was such an incredible opportunity. I mean, especially once I had the chance to fully immerse myself in this. Honestly looking back, part of me actually regrets that I didn’t do more to try to appreciate the experience. To get more invested, say watch the local news more, as opposed to international news that we were doing.  This was really something and not many people have that chance to experience it. And I think it really made quite a difference in learning to adapt to so many different variables that were at play and we had to move on and move forward. 

Fabian: Well, I love that. I love that. So overall, you would say it was a positive experience. And if your one takeaway was that it  forced you to adapt.

Alejandro: It did it really did.

Fabian: And it’s something that so many people need to hear today. Sometimes you just need that push, push come to shove. When today, for most Americans and people around the world, it’s the pandemic. It’s forcing people to change how they live and change everything that they think about the world and forcing them to adapt.

And luckily we had that experience because of having to live in very different situations and environments. And I feel like, yeah, this was still a challenging 12 or 14 months at this point pretty much, but it’s been, it was a lot easier for me than I know for a lot of people. And I would say a lot of that is in part to not only our life experience, but going to places like Jamaica.

Well, with that said, Alejandro. That was kind of a very in-depth look into Jamaica and that experience and the benefits and the negatives as well, of living in such a place. But overall, it was a very unique scenario. So what happened at this point? Like how long were we there? And what’s the cliffhanger for the audience?

Alejandro: Right, right, right. So it was interesting because normally with these diplomat postings, you’re there for maybe like say three or four years, usually. Give or take, depending on circumstances. As we established previously, Mexico was previously cut short because of my health reasons. So my dad requested a transfer to Littleton, Colorado. And then Jamaica curiously enough, we were only stationed there for one year. We will get more into the reasons why probably later on. But yeah, it was rather unexpected. I remember we were planning on going on vacation and then suddenly my dad comes, as you will become all too familiar with, and suddenly says, Hey, you know what, we’re moving again. It’s like, wait, what? We just moved here and you’ll never guess where we’re going to. 

What’s interesting is that, when we were in Jamaica, there was a set curriculum for obviously the classes and one class that we had in my school was Spanish. So my relatively basic elementary Spanish, made me a superstar. I was in high demand to tell people out, and of course the Spanish teacher had high expectations of me. And I mean, I was riding that high of course, you can imagine. And I was thinking, Oh yeah, I’ve, I’ve got this, I’ve got this, which would eventually come back to haunt me very, very soon.

Fabian: That’s a perfect transition and you guys will find out next episode where we went. I will say the language piece is key because just to let you guys really think about this for a few days and hours, how would you feel if you never really knew what your first language was? Because whenever you moved somewhere else, you could kind of change what your first language is. You’re in Jamaica and all of a sudden it’s like, you’re an expert at Spanish, were you really? You didn’t really have a lot of Spanish schooling to be honest with you. And when you did, you had it at the very basic years, like the rest was just you had your parents’ exposure.

I mean, I just can relate to now, like how many friends in the U.S. that have a Spanish parent and their Spanglish and their Spanish grammar is atrocious. Really? Like they go somewhere, then they have to take Spanish classes, they would do terrible. So it was such an interesting  perspective on it. We were viewed as we were Spanish experts and it was almost like our first language, but was it really? 

Imagine if wherever you moved, you moved from this other country, to this new place, and now people expect you to be a god, just because of your background. That’s an interesting thing. When now you have to almost live up to expectations.

Alejandro: I agree.

Fabian: So with that said, I feel like this was an excellent episode, Alejandro. We should continue to self-reflect. I think all these conversations just bring back a lot of memories, a lot of positives, more so than negatives, which is the truth. Our life was amazing. It was an opportunity, it was an experience that most people would never have. The truth is that if I could do it again now would. Obviously some things I would love to change, but overall it made us stronger. It made us better. And there’s a lot here, guys, to unpack. I hope you guys loved it and appreciated it.

And with that said, please let us know what you guys think about everything you’ve heard. But really curious to hear your opinion on how would you have handled moving to a Caribbean Island, or some secluded place where you are literally the odd man out. 

Think about if you went to a new school in a different state and everyone was the color red, like their skin was red, and you were blue. How would you feel? Would that make you want to fit in, would that make you want to change who you are, or would you feel confident because you were blue and you were better than everyone else? Let me know. 

Well, Alejandro, thank you so much for joining me today. Guys, thanks so much for watching and tuning in. We will see you guys next time at Real Talk.

May 17, 2021

My 3 Cents: Power of Perspective released!

Hello everybody…how are we today?! My 3 Cents: Power of Perspective released today marking the fifth episode of that particular series, another amazing milestone!

In other news, we also are going to be celebrating our 1 month launch-iversary with a special live stream. We will be announcing the winner of our new giveaway (YES, we will be doing another one, you heard it here first folks!); we will be sharing our opinion on how the first month has gone; we will also discuss our new product launch and finally we will be also starting our journey on Clubhouse as well!

Don’t miss it here on Clubhouse!

Follow us @Chaminger on Clubhouse to never miss a live session!

Make sure to listen and read the transcript to this very special episode of My 3 Cents. Today we discuss one of main keys of Becoming Xceptional – learning to understand the power of perspective and how viewing yourself from an outsider’s perspective is critical to gaining self-esteem and happiness.

Listen to My 3 Cents: Power of Perspective released today!

My 3 Cents Episode #5: Power of Perspective Part 1
My 3 Cents Episode #5: Power of Perspective Part 1

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hello everybody. How are we today? My name is Fabian Chagoya. 

Stephani: And my name is Stephani Furminger and you are listening to Chaminger: Becoming Xceptional. 

Fabian: And this is My 3 Cents about the power of perspective.

Hey, Stephani. 

Hello, Fabian Chagoya. 

So how does it feel? We finally launched we’ve been doing it for a bit. What are your thoughts versus your expectations? 

Stephani: Well, it’s definitely, um, I would say a lot more work and I don’t say that in a bad way, but it’s just, there’s so much involved. And I know that we were kind of, um, figuring that out while we were getting everything ready, but it’s just crazy once you’re launched. Then not only are you trying to manage the day to day, but then there’s also figuring out new things, different ways to do things and the best way to do things and tweaking things here and there. And it’s a lot, but it’s definitely been a fun adventure, navigating through all that. 

I love hearing that because that’s all I’ve ever wanted for us, for you. For me, it’s. Part of that growth journey. Fabian: It’s experimenting, learning something new, challenging yourself, and boy, has it been a challenge. 

Stephani: Yeah. How do you feel it’s been going and your expectations versus the reality? 

Fabian: Absolutely terrible. Why aren’t we a million followers yet? Just kidding. It’s been incredible. It’s been absolutely amazing to see that hard work pays off. Passion pays off. People are resonating with the message. Although I will say it’s very interesting to see that a lot of people are enjoying the content, but there’s this hesitancy about expressing that it resonated with them. And I think right now we’re kind of going on a journey of figuring out more of that why. I know there’s, it kind of relates to our whole Chaminger: Becoming Xceptional message where there’s this, you know, insecurity, lack of confidence, lack of self-esteem and also caring too much what other people think. But we’re working on creating a way for you guys to open up to us, to a community in a more private way that lets you feel confident in, you know, knowing that there’s other people going through this with you. And I think that’s something that’s really powerful. 

Stephani: Yeah, I completely agree. And yeah, we have been talking about that a lot in the best way for people to be able to feel like they can open up. Because if they’re just beginning their journey, yeah, they’re still going to have those insecurities and um, they’re not necessarily going to want to share, or like, or comment because then what if someone else, uh, that they’re friends with sees that they liked that post. They’re like, Oh, well, I mean, nobody’s really gonna, I mean, maybe people will think that, but it’s just like, well, they probably have those same insecurities too. They just don’t feel comfortable opening up about it. 

Yup. So what’s the lesson, guys? It’s okay to be where you’re at right now. It’s a work in progress. That’s what we’re doing. I mean- 

But step outside of your comfort zone too. Um, that is I think a very valuable thing to remember because you may be going through this, but you’re not alone. There are so many other people out there going through, maybe not the exact same situation as you, but they may have the same insecurity or similar insecurity or the same hesitation. So you, you commenting or liking or sharing something that really resonated with you may also really resonate with someone else that you didn’t even know it may resonate with them. So, 

Fabian: I really love that. I think there really is something about, I mean, humans just naturally are attracted to like community and fitting in and being part of like the tribe and having a place in society. It just is really comforting knowing that and you don’t have to worry about, Hey, do I belong here or not? So seeing someone else do it and they open up, then it’s like, Oh, I can do it now. It’s almost like we need like a few ambassadors. So Hey, if you want to be one! To be like, Hey, this actually really resonated with me. I would love to, you know, be a guest. I would love to be on the live stream and so forth. I think there’s something to be said about that. 

I’m curious how you feel, because I know this has probably been- I’m, I’m good at now being very vulnerable, because that was one of the key things that led me to get to where I am today. Where I can talk about this so passionately, right. Where you have to open up and like let the poison out and share what’s on your mind and what you’re really feeling, what you’re really thinking and not just talk about superficial things. 

It’s also kind of crazy, you know, especially as you guys have probably heard in the previous episode, I was so private before and then it’s like doing a complete 180. Where it’s like, we’re on all the social medias. I’m on TikTok, I mean, who would’ve ever thought? And it’s like, we’re sharing these very, intense, deep messages, but they’re powerful messages. They’re good messages, but a lot of these are very personal stories. So I know that it’s been exciting so that people can kind of really see the real me, but also it’s been kind of intense as well. So I’m curious how you feel being that vulnerable. 

Stephani: Yeah, it’s definitely a big change for me as well. Um, it’s one thing and I’ve always had trouble opening up just in my life in general, not even on like social media or to the world in general, just personally opening up even to myself, let alone anyone else. So it’s definitely been a little bit of a struggle, especially just opening up to everyone. So it’s, it’s an interesting journey, but I’m trying to practice what we preach. Not, everyone needs to necessarily open up to the entire world, all of their insecurities, but we want to make sure that we’re teaching everyone else, our audience, all of our Chamingeritos that it’s okay to be vulnerable. It’s okay to have insecurities. You just need to figure out what they are and then work on squashing them. 

Fabian: I love it. So let’s get to the topic today, huh? 

Stephani: Yeah. Oh, by the way, everyone. Um, I love blankets, so I’m sure that you’ve probably seen, um, me in the background with a blanket on. So sorry, I’m wearing a blanket right now, but it just comforts me. So don’t judge, I’m sure a lot of you are in the same position. a lot of you that work in an office, I’m sure you would love to be able to wear a blanket on you 24/7, if you could. 

Fabian: Yes. I love it. I love it. 

Anyway, so our topic today… 

Is the topic of the power of perspective. If I said that to you randomly, like we were at a bar having a drink, what would come to mind? I feel like that’s something that people are just like, Oh yeah. Perspective, perspective, perspective. It’s a word that you hear thrown around left and right. I feel like it’s kind of lost a lot of its value and people just hear it and they almost just like shrug it off. Do you ever feel like that has become a thing? Like where a big word like that there’s such a, a powerful topic, meaningful topic has almost become marginalized. 

Stephani: Yeah. I mean, I think there are so many things that have just become marginalized and just made into a smaller, um, deal than they actually are. And once you take a step back and actually think about it and reflect on it, it’s like, wow, that really is a big, big piece. So I’m excited for this talk today because I think that so many people need to hear what we have to say about the power of perspective and what it actually means as opposed to what the general consensus of what it’s become. 

Fabian: Perfect. So the power perspective and the reason why I looked at the audience right there is because I want everyone who’s been following the Chaminger journey, or if this is your first time tuning in to realize that this is a topic that’s going to be constantly brought back up. But it’s one of the five keys that we’re going to cover throughout our journey of really Becoming Xceptional. There’s a lot that goes into it, but if I would have to summarize it into five key pieces, it’s power perspective, it’s breaking free from the shackles of judgment, not caring when people think, honesty, authenticity, and having a positive mindset all while practicing ABI. Check out last episode, if you don’t know what that is, but that’s really, those are the core themes that support everything of what Chaminger represents. 

And all of those kinds of like branch off into Stephani: subtopics and whatnot. So it’s not just that, but those are kind of the key, key pieces to where we’re going with this Chaminger brand. 

Fabian: Absolutely. And that’s why today we want to focus on power of perspective, because I feel like that’s where it really begins. It’s being able to change how you view something, it’s such an underrated skill. I want to start with an extreme story, an extreme example to kind of paint the picture for everyone so that they realize, it’s probably going to, everyone’s going to be like, Oh, of course, that’s what that means. But that’s why I share those extreme examples with everyone. Because you’re going to hear this constantly throughout the journey, Fabian’s extreme examples. The reason why I do is because if that extreme example makes sense to you, then you need to apply that same logic to everything. If that extreme example does not make sense to you, then you’re like, wait a minute, why doesn’t it make sense to me? 

So the example that I want to share is let’s just say, this is your first time traveling somewhere. You’re a well off businessman, extremely well off. Maybe you own restaurants and you know, you care about what people think. You have a $5,000 suit, you have a Rolex, you drive the latest BMW. You’re extremely well off, right? 

Stephani: Now this is an important question to this story. Where are we traveling to. Where is this, uh, theoretical person traveling to? 


Got it. Okay. Sorry. I probably jumped the gun on that one. 

Fabian: No, I love it. Basically what I wanted to paint the picture is traveling to a third world country. But this person is insecure and that’s why he’s buying all these expensive things, because- 

Stephani: Does anyone know that he’s insecure?

Fabian: He’s never publicize it. 

Stephani: Got it. I’m just trying to get the full picture here for myself and everyone else. 

Fabian: Thank you. 

Stephani: Yes. 

Fabian: Because I know, I forget things. 

Stephani: No, you’re doing great. 

Fabian: So this guy is insecure. He cares too much what people think and there’s many reasons why, but the point is he bought a lot of these things for the people, his friends from a high school and his college buddies and his three ex-girlfriends. That all cheated on him. Um, he bought these things to show them that he made it. That he’s kicking ass and taking names and his life’s amazing. But he’s never really traveled outside of the United States because he’s like, what’s the point? Like there’s no reason to travel and experience other cultures.

For some reason he’s motivated all of a sudden to travel. Maybe it’s for a business deal, whatever. The point is he still going to go somewhere he’s never gone before. This guy is insecure, he’s struggling. Maybe he feels like he’s not good looking because he gained 10 pounds, maybe- 

Stephani: during COVID

Fabian:  Maybe a million other things, but he’s just not happy with himself.

He goes to Jamaica and he spends one week there, but his reservation at this expensive resort got canceled. So now he has to stay like at a, just a local hotel, two stars, and kind of live with the locals. Everyone who meets him and sees him there was going to view this businessman as successful, probably an arrogant prick, but they’re going to view them as successful, happy, he figured it out. There’s nothing that could possibly be wrong in his life. He has everything that he could possibly want and need. They view him as almost like this God, like perfection incarnate. They don’t know anything that’s going on in his life. Right? Like deep down, like personally and in his head.

But these people just view him from that perspective, from that viewpoint, they know nothing about him and they see that. Obviously they’re assuming, and they’re making connections, but that’s how he’s presenting himself. So then you have to take a step back. If these people that have nothing view him that way, why is he viewing himself a completely different way?

And then the best part about this story is going to be that when he’s there, he sees these people and all the people he interacts with that are literally living in terrible conditions because they don’t have jobs. There’s no opportunities. COVID completely destroyed tourism so they’re making no money. They’re literally like barely surviving, but they’re happy. They’re happy. Because all they know is, Hey, just, uh, listen to their music, to their Bob Marley, hang out with their friends every day now because they’re not working, they get to see their buddies. They get to catch up, share stories. Life is great for them.

If this guy comes and they’re like, Oh my God, like who is this guy? They think he has everything, but who’s actually happier in this scenario, who has it? And what’s crazy is that if this guy had the same mindset and perspective as these Jamaicans, his life would be completely different and then you have to ask yourself, why can’t he? So what do you think about that story? 

Stephani: Well, um, that’s a great, uh, is it a true story? No, I’m just kidding. 

Fabian: There’s sprinkles in there.

Stephani:  I’m sure. I’m sure it’s a true story for someone, somewhere. But, um, it really says a lot about, I mean, obviously as you said, it’s an extreme example and not everyone can necessarily relate to that exact example, but you’re just painting a picture of how you can take a step back and realize perspective means a lot. Because you may have next to nothing and be happy, or you could have, have absolutely everything that you could ever want and need from like a living standpoint and be absolutely miserable because you’re just not happy with yourself or you know, whatever it may be. Actually viewing it from other perspectives and how they view that other, how everyone else views that other person is just a crazy thing to realize and remember. 

Fabian: Once you actually started realizing, it’s like, these people, I mean, they might have never even had a smartphone, right? So their access to knowledge is severely limited, in comparison. And we’ll get into that, but it’s almost like knowledge as a curse because the more, you know, the more you’re aware of. It’s like, sometimes it’s just good to just live life on the flat plane, not worry about climbing the hill or the mountain.

They literally view this guy as like, there’s no way this guy could be insecure. If like I went up to them and was like, do you know that that guy’s insecure? He’s unhappy, he thinks he’s ugly, he’s fat or whatever. And all these people are gonna like, 

Stephani: How? How could they ever think that, he seems to have everything. Because he has all these flashy, fancy things. But you don’t really know what’s going on internally, but that’s just the power of perspective. You know, you see this person and you assume that they have everything that they could ever want and need, but they don’t. 

Fabian: Exactly. I think there’s a few takeaways there, but I would say number one is, that’s why I’m such a strong believer in, you know, don’t judge people. Everyone always makes internal judgments pretty quickly about someone, but you thought it, don’t put more value to it. Get to know them. Don’t make assumptions. I mean, this whole journey is showing the entire world. I mean, us, but, I know that was my personal motivation to be like, Hey, you guys are actually going to get to know me for once because people just assume so much. 

It really gets very interesting when you realize that if you can start viewing yourself and your accomplishments and where you’re at from an outsider perspective, from a third party. Like if you could actually, like, let’s just think like a horror movie, like you can, your spirit can get out of your body and you could see yourself now. Like if you were in a movie or a TV show, you were watching yourself. You’d probably talk and think differently about yourself now because you’re almost like the stranger. You are another person. 

Stephani: Yup. 

Fabian: And that’s when things get really, really interesting to me, because that completely changes the game. Once you’re able to do that, that’s the skill set that I want to make sure people start working on and start realizing that they need to do. Whenever anything happens, good or bad, or you have doubts or you feel amazing. Take a step back and start viewing yourself from that third-party perspective. 

Stephani: And a situation may happen, um, earlier in the day, and then you look back on it or an hour ago and you look back on it and you just think about it, reflect on it. And then you’re like, well, why was I so insecure about that? Or why was I so worried about that? Um, or it could have been something that happened two years ago, three years ago. However long ago, it may have been, and just view that in a different light. View that situation, that scenario in a different way. 

You know, you may have, um, done a really, really terrible, going back to your sales, a terrible pitch. Like let’s just say, um, it was a zoom meeting and zoom kept like flashing in and out and the PowerPoint wasn’t loading, but then it’s like, okay, well that happened. But then since everything wasn’t working, we just had a conversation and it was a better pitch than it would have been a PowerPoint. So it’s just taking a step back and finding the positives in whatever situation you may have thought was absolutely terrible.

Fabian: Well, I love that you brought up sales and it’s just, 

Stephani: uh-oh! 

Fabian: It just really makes me think that, um, you know how our opinion of ourselves is so wrong most of the time. And the problem is that most people, strangers, friends, almost everyone is very hesitant to give compliments or feedback. Negative feedback is a lot more common, but it’s very rare for people to give positive feedback to people. It’s just something that most people just don’t do. 

Stephani: I’m just, as soon as you said that, I just think about, I mean, it’s slightly different, but it is about giving feedback. And it’s like, people that, let’s just say they go to a restaurant and they’re like, Oh my goodness, the service was absolutely terrible. The food was terrible. Everything was terrible. They’re going to write a negative review, but let’s just say every, or they went to this restaurant a different day and had a different server. They weren’t as busy. And the service was amazing. The food was amazing. Oh my gosh. The experience, everything was absolutely amazing. Most people aren’t going to write a review about that. They’re going to only write the review when it’s negative. Because for whatever reason, people always want to find the negative in things. They don’t ever want to celebrate the positives. 

And that’s why another one of the keys is to change that to a positive mindset, because you’re right. We always tend to view things almost negatively, or like, what did we not get? What did we not reach? What did we, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And now you change it to, well, what did we get? What did we find? What did we achieve? It really is the game changer and you start doing that for everything. Fabian: It really, those two connect so well, perspective and positive mindset, but it starts with changing your perspective.

The reason why I said about the feedback thing is because you start creating a self narrative for yourself and you don’t even realize it. You start hearing people. And once we end up talking about the topic for another episode, the power of network and the people you surround yourself with, and they start saying things to you. So you start listening to them. Your parents are saying things to you, your friends, your coworkers, your boss, and those start forming your, your opinion of yourself. You have your own opinion, but they help form it for the better, or for the worse, usually for the worst. 

So, what then ends up happening is that you start thinking of yourself a certain way. Since most people don’t tell you that you’re good or that things are going well, or stuff like that, you just are taking in all the negative feedback. And let’s be real, for some reason, we still also don’t end up taking compliments the same way. You know? 

Stephani: I feel like the, the negative comments, they always outweigh all the positive comments or feedback. For whatever reason, that’s just the way a lot of people, most people, think, and that’s the way their brain works. But you gotta change that mindset and take in all those positive comments and remember all of those. And I’m still working on this as well, but you know, those, those negative comments view as a learning experience. 

This restaurant, they were doing really terrible, but then they got a new head chef. And then, um, one of their servers, they found a better way to maybe they, they couldn’t wait on five tables at once, they could only do three at once. And then the manager realized that, and then they changed that about their section. So now there’s a new head chef and that server is no longer overwhelmed and then they flourish and they become this amazing employee. And then that same person comes back and they have an amazing experience.

So sometimes you just have to take those negative comments and feedback and just find the lesson and figure out how to improve on whatever that negative comment was. 

Fabian: I love how you always go straight for the kill. You hear a thing and you always find the lesson and you always find like the takeaway. You’re so good about that and I love that. So the lesson really of the power perspective is starting to view things differently. But what do I mean by things could be anything, right? Could be traumas, issues, fears, uh, anything, but really the big takeaway is viewing failures as a lesson.

What did you get out of it? What good came out of it, because guess what? They’re probably still was 80% bad, but if there was even 20% good, focus on the 20%. Because again, the way you view things. The way our brain works is like, if right now I said, Hey guys, did you know that I saw cat riding a camel? All of you thought about a cat riding a camel, a hundred percent. No one pictured a kid surfing in the ocean. Oh wait, now you did. That’s why the power of suggestion is so strong, because the way the brain works is, you hear something, you think of something, period. No one can argue differently. I will not even entertain that.

So what ends up happening is you end up hearing all these negative things, you end up hearing failure. People tell you negative things, you focus on that. You think that, it becomes your reality. Now you change it. Like for example, now let’s get into some stories that I think a lot of people- 

Stephani: Storytime with Fabian, I feel like that could be, a, a segment of ours.

Fabian: Well, we’re going to write a book. I don’t know it it’s a book meant for, uh, for bedtime. 

Stephani: Kids. Yeah. 

Fabian: Maybe. So little Fabian went up the Hill. Well, it takes me to a thought where, for example, I would say 95% of people, they might’ve assumed, or maybe a few people might’ve guessed if they were good at psychology, but I would say 95 to 98% of people that have met me would have never guessed that I had so many traumas and issues and insecurities and fears and all because of my upbringing and my past.

And like, for example, that they know that I wasn’t confident in my looks. That for example, my eyebrows or when I was, uh, a young teenager, I was overweight for a short period of time and that affected my self image. Did they know that I had fear of attachment and commitment issues. Do you think they knew all that?

Stephani: I definitely didn’t know that when I first met you. 

Right? And it’s just, I can present myself confidently and I might’ve already overcame them, or I might just not be thinking about them, but deep down they’re there. And it just goes to show you like that was actually one of the things that changed my perspective was applying that, view yourself from a third party perspective.

Fabian: If none of these people that just met me think that, why the heck do I think that? Because I’m not letting go of the past, because I’m dwelling, because of this. It’s like, that’s when you start realizing, you gotta be able to laugh at yourself and your past. Those failures, those mistakes, you gotta laugh at it. I’m like, Oh my God, do you remember the one time that I was supposed to do a presentation to the CEO of the largest pediatric group? And I ended up going to the wrong side of town and I ended up visiting another pediatric group because I misspelled it. That didn’t actually happen. 

Stephani: I was like, I haven’t heard that story before.

Fabian: No, it was just an example. I’m like, you know what? Yeah, it was bad in the moment, but at the end of the day, you’re like, can you imagine that I lost like a deal that would have made my year because I misspelled a location in my GPS on my phone? Like, what can you do but laugh at it. There’s like, there’s nothing you can do to change it.

Stephani: Yeah. 

So that was kind of where it started for me. Was realizing that all these strangers that have never met me think I’m incredible. Think I’m amazing. Think I’m, good-looking. Think that they want to be like me. They want to have my confidence. They want to have my approach to life. 

Fabian: Yet I am feeling down. I’m feeling insecure. I’m not feeling good with myself. There’s a big disconnect there. And that’s one of the first things that you need to start paying attention to. When there’s a disconnect from what everyone else is telling you or what people think, they might have not tell you in person, because most people just don’t like we talked about, versus what you think. Why? Probably because you are way too harsh on yourself and you’re viewing yourself in a negative light. 

Another thing that I think about when talking about how other people view you is, when you start realizing a lot of people view you on a much higher level than you view yourself. That’s one of the key takeaways that I want people to have from this episode is you are significantly better than you think. Every single person out there is a lot better than they think.

Hey guys, thanks for tuning into My 3 Cents. This concludes this part. We hope the stories were as impactful for you as they were for us. We are so excited that you’re experiencing this journey with us to Become Xceptional. Please remember to leave a comment on your thoughts. Did our perspective connect with you? What was your favorite part? You know, the drill. Check out our website at and follow all our social medias to get the full Chaminger Xperience. My final 3 cents for today, please subscribe and follow our podcast and tune in next week to hear more of our stories and crazy, but insightful perspectives. You don’t want to miss it. Be you. Be free. Stay amazing.

May 12, 2021

New Series Launch: Social Wisdom Episode 1: Taylor Yu

Hello my fellow Chamingers! Today we have amazing news. We can finally officially announce our New Series Launch: Social Wisdom. This is going to be a show were we can significantly increase the amount of viewpoints present on Chaminger. We interview guests from all ages and demographics with very unique backgrounds and stories. The whole point is to hear their perspective and have them identify the key advice that helped change or improve their life significantly for the better. Don’t sleep on the super power of learning from others.

Today marks the release of our first episode where we have the opportunity to interview an old friend. While he might be young and starting his journey into the work force, you get to hear how powerful it is to be a foreigner, and a traveler. There is incredible insight to broadening your horizons and seeing how the world really works.

Check out new episodes every single Wednesday. Remember that we are always looking for guests. Send us an email at if you would be interested to share your wisdom, you never know who will resonate with your journey. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Listen to our New Series Launch: Social Wisdom

Social Wisdom Episode #1: Taylor Yu
Social Wisdom Episode #1: Taylor Yu

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hola from Chaminger. My name is Fabian Chagoya and I’m your host of Social Wisdom. How do you know what to work on to improve? By being exposed to what is actually possible or obtainable. A major goldmine of untapped knowledge and experience is learning from others, Social Wisdom. Be a sponge, save yourself countless lessons and years of figuring it out the hard way by absorbing it firsthand from others. And here we go. 

Today on Social Wisdom, we’re going to be exploring the advice from our guest, Taylor Yu. Hey Taylor, how are you doing today?

Tyalor: Hello? Good you? 

Fabian: I’m doing excellent. It’s exciting to be able to do this with you for two reasons in my mind. One, because we hung out in person years ago in Seattle. We met through a mutual friend. And two, just to be able to now remotely, we’re in different States, and reconnect over a podcast and a completely different thing is to me insane. Like how does that feel to you?

Tyalor: Uh, it feels kind of crazy cause everything just kind of like all turned to remote after COVID and after everything hit. I was actually out of the country. So it was kinda crazy trying to get back into the U.S. and everything.

Fabian: Where were you at? If you don’t mind me asking.

Tyalor: Vietnam.

Fabian: Oh, so you actually had gone out, did it like happen like right before, during, or how was the situation?

Tyalor: I was actually visiting my wife’s family in Vietnam and we were over there for three months from December 26th, so right after Christmas and then to March 20, it was supposed to be March 26, but because of COVID, my parents were like freaking out. They’re like, you need to come home now. They’re going to close the airports. They’re going to not let you back in the U.S. 

Fabian: How was it coming back to the U.S. and how did it differ in Vietnam in your opinion? 

Tyalor: So in Vietnam, they actually, they did a very good job of actually stopping COVID. Late January, it hit Vietnam pretty hard and that’s when the realization woke up and it was like, this could be pretty serious. So they had like locked down everything. They closed all the bars, all family businesses were closed. No one was able to go out after a certain time in Vietnam. If they did, they’d toss you back and be like, Hey, you can’t go here, this is closed. They give you a ticket or they enforced laws. Um, It was kind of scary to be honest, because at first I wasn’t really too worried about the virus itself. It was just the authority there. Right? 

And then on my way back, I was like, Oh, it’s just kind of like a flu, it’ll go away, right? It’s not that bad. And then the numbers started slowly increasing during my two week quarantine. I actually had to stay at my parents and my landlord was like, Hey, don’t come back for two weeks. Stay somewhere else for two weeks and then come back to the house. So yeah, it was pretty crazy. 

Fabian: So obviously that was huge, especially because kind of like you got to see two different countries handle it very differently. Which, I mean, the U.S. definitely lacked the, the ballsiness I guess we can call it, right? To enforce these things. My question to you then is, so you came back and all of a sudden things are changing. People are telling you, Hey, you got a quarantine. How did this start effecting your mindset? You come back and then all of a sudden, like no one is going to be hiring, or tell us a little more about that.

Tyalor: I had used to fundraise. They had halted, the governor had halted all businesses and that they were not allowed to fundraise in person. So I came back, I was like, okay, well I’m still hired by them, but we’re basically on furlough. So we don’t have anywhere to go. I was collecting unemployment. I honestly didn’t want to go back to work. Cause unemployment started paying more then my actual job. 

I wasn’t spending because we were quarantined, just getting basic necessities. And then, uh, everything started opening up, spending more money. And then my mindset kind of just came from like lazy, didn’t want to go back to work because of the uh, unemployment. And then after eight months, my parents were actually like, Hey, you should probably go back to work somewhere. And I ended up working for Toyota Forklift Northwest. So you know how a forklift looks, there’s a big counterweight that holds the forklift from tilting over. We repair that and make it look brand new and also so that they can resell it and all that.

So I started working, mindset started to be like, I don’t want to go to work. I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to do this. And then now I had realized that I basically wasted a whole 11 months at that time, after the eight months of doing nothing, not improving, my wife basically pointed out that I had done nothing. It was like played games all day, stayed home, eat, sleep, come back, do the same thing every single day.

Fabian: You felt like you weren’t accomplishing anything. My question to you is, was it out of like almost necessity? So what I mean by that is COVID hit, pandemic hit. You were in Vic, on vacation somewhere, you come back, your life completely turns around. All of a sudden you can’t do your job anymore, which is kind of crazy. Like, do you feel like that, let’s just call it laziness, but it really was just not doing anything outside of home life. Was it you, your body and your mental health just basically saying, Hey, I need to like recover and stabilize because so much is going on or do you think it actually was just like, you were like, okay, I can kind of chill right now because of unemployment and all this stuff

Tyalor: I think it was partially from also me coming back from Vietnam and not working for three months. That kind of made it like to the point where it’s like, okay, I don’t want to do anything and transition back into, you know, work, grind, get to where want to be, improve.

Fabian: The vacation after the vacation, you have to like, change your mindset after that.

Tyalor: Yeah. It’s hard to change after that. So you kind of get stuck in a loop. So it was comfortable at first. I enjoyed it and I was like, okay, four months, I can do this, this is fine. Five months, I’ll look for a job in next month. Six months passed by, my boss had called me up saying, Hey, we’re doing telephone calling. Didn’t want to do that.

Fabian: Yeah. Random cold calling. No, thank you.

Tyalor: It wasn’t, wasn’t for me. And then started to switch into like nine to 10 months in when I got the job at my, the company that my dad works at. It just slowly, it was like, okay, I’m going to start doing this. So now, right now I’m in like the mode where I’m improving myself, also like my mindset and physically as well. 

Fabian: Well, I mean, I think that’s really cool that you kind of saw that, Hey, I need to start doing something about this. I can’t just keep remaining the status quo 9, 10, 11 months. And the next thing you know, it’s end of the year and you haven’t really done anything. And did the concern of like time hit you? Like you were like, Oh my like a year just passed by and nothing major happened.  What was the trigger in your opinion that kind of made you feel like, Hey, things need to change now.

Tyalor: I think the trigger was the time that had actually passed. Cause when I had come back, it was my birthday, I had just turned 23.  A year passed and I was like, Oh crap, I’m 24 now. Um, we kind of have gone through COVID for a whole year and nothing has gotten done. 

It was to the point, like, I need to switch it into gear and start working, start doing this, start improving. Being on this podcast, thank you for having me also, by the way. It was something that I wanted to do and it was out of my comfort zone. So I was like, I should probably try doing new things.

Fabian: Respect man, I like that. I think, number one, I just want to say, from me to, you were both young, but you’re especially still really young dude. The way I view it is you can restart at any point. Like, I would even say like a 45 year old, 50 year old, if they wanted to, like, they could be like, I am done working at being the Starbucks manager in Seattle. I am going to completely change that. I’m going to flip my life around and I’m going to start working towards certain goals or aspirations that I’ve always had. And why can’t you start then? Right. Like the question is, do you not have money? Do you have a certain other obligations? Like, do you have to take care of your parents or your wife or whatever, right? Like those are the things that can change that. But I feel in your case, I mean, you’re young. You have the opportunity to really still discover so many things and try different things and really kind of decide what you want to do.

So I just want to put things in perspective because a lot of the things you’re saying like, Oh, I felt like, I mean, yes, you can say, you could have used your year better, but I really, I wouldn’t be too harsh on yourself because sometimes you have to go to that part in life where you’re like, you didn’t do anything, you were “lazy”, so to speak, you didn’t, you maybe gain weight. You were whatever, right? Like all these things that the society considers not ideal, but you now saw what that was. You saw how you felt. I’m pretty sure you’re probably not going to do it again, unless something terrible happens. Right?

Tyalor: Right now, it’s like also, there’s a lot of stuff that’s like holding me back.  But it all comes down to like making a plan and actually going for it rather than just not doing it.

Fabian: Well, let’s kind of transition to that, I think that’s a really good point. I appreciate all the things you shared. Um, I love the fact that you are working in a completely different field. I’m definitely going to be interested to hear if this job was just a job. Sorry if your bosses are listening, or it’s something actually you were interested in because they are two very different things. But it sounds to me like you have certain goals and you said that there’s certain things holding you back, and those are the things that I want to focus on, but let’s talk about that job piece first.

So you’re working at this forklift place. And that’s something that I find absolutely fascinating because I have no idea where I would even start there, man. Like the stuff like mechanical things and like handy stuff, like I’m okay. But I would much rather, like I was happy when I got money in sales to pay stuff and buy stuff because I’m like, Hey, who wants to fix this for me? Right. So curious, that job, like, did you choose it for a particular reason? Was it money? Was it interest? Tell me more about that.

Tyalor: When I started, it was like, okay. I have like obligations I need to pay for right? Obviously rent, uh, tuition, stuff like that. Stimulus check and the unemployment is not gonna keep, you know, keep funding that. The time passed and it did cover most of it. And then it was the point where like, like I said, my wife pointed out and also it ended up to a point where my parents were also pointing it out saying, you can’t just be sitting at home playing video games all day and not doing anything.

So it was supposed to be just a job, but now I like it. It’s actually, it’s a lot more enjoyable than my previous job. The stress, the amount of time I had to stand outside fundraising in downtown Seattle. The people I had to train for like four or five days straight, making sure that they did their job, but also the fact that when I would train them, they wouldn’t stay. So it was just a bunch of effort put into someone that wasn’t worth the time. 

You can kind of tell when you’re doing a certain job, if someone is going to make it or not, when you’ve done it for a while. They may blow you away, they may surprise you, but it would just end up to be the point where like 90% of the people that I did train and I knew weren’t going to make it, weren’t making it. And only about 10% of the people that I had fully trained did make it. So it was just exhausting. 

Fabian: Well, I think there’s a lot there that I want to talk about. I completely understand why you were exhausted having to train people. Like training people is actually such a valuable skill set. You should be always mentioning that and talking about that from any jobs that you do from now on, because a lot of people don’t realize that training is one of the keys to employee success. Like most jobs that I’ve had, had terrible training and you can set someone up for success. 

Now, one thing that you said was right, is that I feel like a job like that is very similar to the timeshare job where we had met, that job was very sink or swim. They weren’t too particular about who they hired. They wanted to make sure you were okay, but they knew that it was really challenging. So most people couldn’t do it. So I was in charge of training, mentoring people at that time. So I know exactly you’re talking about. I’m like, okay, like you would invest like back, then it used to be two weeks, then they lowered it to three days. But imagine you spend two weeks with one person and then at the 20th day, they leave. You’re like, Oh my goodness, I just wasted all this time. Right? So I completely understand where you’re coming from there.

Tyalor: Also in that same way, it also improves on how you train, right? And also retaining people in fundraising and sales in general, retaining staff to make sure that it doesn’t seem like you’re forcing them and that they’re having fun with their job. I think the reason I did fundraising for so long is because it was fun. I loved making people smile when they would fund like fundraising. They’d be like, Oh, this is going to these kids over in this country and it would. Then seeing the impact that it had on those kids, uh, that they actually were able to see or get letters from in the mail.

Fabian: It’s kind of like your baby, almost like you, it really was something you spent a lot of time in. 

Tyalor: Oh man, it’s just, I have a lot of good memories of it and a lot of like exhausting memories and made a lot of friends though from it though, too, as well.

Fabian: There’s very few jobs that I would even consider going back to that I’ve held and I’ve done really well in pretty much all my jobs. And I’m like, yeah, I don’t know if I would ever go back. The reason why I say that is because since you first started to where you are now, you’ve improved, you’ve grown, you’ve learned, you’re like, Oh, I’m better than I was back then. 

So I’m curious what it is about fundraising. You mentioned one thing that I thought was really interesting is that you liked seeing people smile and that they saw that they’re making an impact and you know, that you’re making an impact.  You want something that will really help someone’s life, that’s one of the things that I got from that, but was it like the socialization aspect. Like what other thing was it that really drew you. 

Tyalor: I think it was more the socialization aspect of it. Also making people laugh during their day. Our job was to stop people on the streets and fundraising and ask them to donate and people in downtown Seattle at the time were like busy. Right? There’s Amazon, there’s um, Oracle, Nordstrom. Microsoft, there’s people walking all over the place from building and building and just getting people to stop from walking past you and stopping and making them laugh. Even if they just don’t stop for you and you say, Hey, like, Oh, you look like someone I know. And they’re like, who? You’re like my new best friend. Just making them laugh or smile throughout their day, it was fun.

If I didn’t hit the quota for the day, It’s more of like, I had a good day, had good conversations, met some really nice people. I think meeting the people over and over that had signed up with me for fundraising and to donate was probably the best part of it. 

I’ve gone twice to Vietnam, once last year and three years before. And then during the three years before the first time I’d left, when I came back to fundraise, my boss had actually told me and a bunch of my coworkers that were still there. They said, Oh, a bunch of people at Amazon kept asking where you were. So it had really surprised me that people at Amazon and Microsoft and those people that I had gotten to sign up had actually remembered me personally. Just from standing on the street and asking them to donate monthly for children’s charity.

Fabian: Well, that’s really cool. That’s a really cool part. And I can relate because I just remember like the Wyndham piece, you know, stopping people is very challenging. It’s not a competition, which one was more challenging. Obviously, I think a donation is.

Tyalor: They were both pretty hard.

Fabian: Yup. Just in general people don’t, especially that kind of crowd. West coast people are more friendly and open than East coast, but these people are probably very busy tech-oriented people that have a tight schedule and they are on a mission to go somewhere. And because of that, stopping them is challenging. 

I think one of the things that is so special about a job like that is you’re relationship building. What you were describing is relationship building and it’s why I loved sales. Once I did the timeshare thing and I continued in my sales career, I realized that relationship building was one of the things that like lit me up.

I had an almost more of an account management role, so I would keep seeing the same people maybe once a month, at least like, uh, doctors or whatever. And over the course of a year, like I changed, they changed, maybe they had a kid, maybe they got married, whatever, right? You actually are having a relationship with them. Like, it’s more professional, but you can also be friends in a way. So I thought that was always something that was really cool to me. I didn’t know that I would’ve liked that so much and it sounds to me like that was one piece for you. Would you agree?

Tyalor: It’s very enjoyable because you get to meet and learn about a bunch of different people and it’s very interesting how people react in certain ways in how you talk and socialize with them.

Fabian:  Do you feel like the reason most people sink in sales is because they just cannot handle the aspect of rejection? Because you’re constantly, constantly, constantly getting rejected or blown off, or even like sometimes insulted for like trying to stop them. Like, do you think it’s that? Or is there something else that goes behind it and how did you handle that piece?

Tyalor: Most of the people that didn’t make it, was mostly because of the rejection. This one person had just like had a mental breakdown, um, because someone had told them that they’re wasting their time or to F off. It also gave me a perspective on also how cruel people can actually be too, uh, for, for no, no apparent reason at all. You just even look at them sometimes, they just like tell you to F off or that say leave, you’re wasting my time.

Fabian: Every person’s different, but it really says a lot about them. Let’s just say it’s a kid is doing this job. You know what it is, and he’s trying to get donations and you’re telling him all this stuff and insulting him, it’s like, come on. Maybe that was you 12 years ago. The fact that they are doing that, I mean, it says a lot about their happiness and their fulfillment and their insecurity or whatever. That’s how I view it to make myself understand it because otherwise I’m like, why are people doing it? You know? Like, why are you hating on random people on the street that you don’t know.

Tyalor: For me personally, the rejection, that didn’t really bug me. Throughout, I think elementary school to middle school, I was like bullied. Mostly for me, just ignoring it eventually and being the bigger person. Thinking this person is saying this for a reason.

Fabian: I think a lot of people don’t look enough into their past, because I think a lot of who we, I mean, who we are today is literally defined by our past, like, little things. So, I’m curious to hear, do you feel like that bullying and all that stuff, did it cause you to have like this down period or did it build like some insecurity in you? Or was, was there ever any aftermath to that or did you just like get older and overcome it or did you move away somewhere and know people in bullying more? Tell me more about that piece.

Tyalor: I think it’s mostly the way that my parents raised me. Um, just mostly because they’re like, Hey, let it go, they might be having something going on at home. And I, I think the reason that it didn’t really quite affect me is because I knew that they probably did. People who do bully have like some insecurities or things that are going on in their life that they can’t quite get away from.

Fabian: They’re almost like lashing out. Uh, what they receiving they’re like passing it forward to make themselves feel better, in a way.

Tyalor: Lashing out from the anger.

Fabian: Yup. So seeing that you kind of, and your parents constantly, like reinforcing that thought, you kind of understood where it was coming from. So you really didn’t let it affect you? I mean, I respect that and admire that. I wish I would have had like that mental fortitude. It didn’t destroy me, but it definitely got to me in a way.

Tyalor: I think more of the recognition of that happening is me realizing it while I was in college. And hearing people will be like, Oh, you’re a little bit fat. You need to lose weight. It wasn’t like, Oh, I feel down. Right. It was just like, I knew I had to lose weight, but it was also to a point where it didn’t quite affect me. And then later on, like after high school and then college, I had actually looked back at my pictures and I look at myself now and I’m like, I actually lost a lot of weight from high school. You always think that when you’re in high school, that that’s how you are going to look for like the rest of your life. And there’s so much more even now that I, I need to learn personally. There’s always more things to do and more things to learn as you go through life.

And I remember one worker, it’s kind of strange, this guy worked at Amazon and I remember him telling me “all these people are sheep that work at Amazon”. But the funny thing was he worked at Amazon and I kind of stared at him. I was like, wait, but you, you work here too. He’s like, well, yeah, but I don’t do all this stuff.  He’s like, don’t settle for too little. I was like, What do you mean? He’s like, don’t get used to how you feel right now. Don’t get stuck in a loop of doing the same things over and over and over again. 

And every time I saw him, he’s like, Hey, how are you doing today? Did you hit your quota? Stuff like that? He’s like, what are you doing tomorrow? And he’d always be asking me if I was doing something else or learning something else. And at the time I was learning a little bit more Vietnamese and he’s like, Oh, that’s good, you’re improving. And over the course of like six months, I would see him every day. And then just, he was just gone after that. 

Fabian: Well, that’s a really good story. I actually would love to have met that guy because he sounds like exactly the way I started thinking a few years ago. I mean, it already started a while back, but very much so recently.  

I say this to everyone, not just you, but when you’re young, like don’t, you don’t need to rush it, but you should always be working to, you know, learn something or change something or improve something. And it could literally be, by the way, like even just getting better at a video game. Just so people realize, it doesn’t have to be anything drastic, life changing, but if this game is something that matters to you, it’s bringing you happiness. Like getting better at it or improving, like that could actually be very worthwhile in your life, but you’re still constantly improving.

And that’s one of the things that, I mean, shout out to the Chaminger brand, is like always be improving is such a key thing. What that guy said, people, most people are, I wouldn’t necessarily use the word sheep anymore, but I understand that, I’ve used it in the past, it’s basically everyone, they’re followers. They’re not, they’re not the leader, they’re not lions, they just want to see what everyone else does. And they’re going to try to fit in and mold themselves to that. So then, you know, years go by and you’re doing the same thing and that’s it. They’re going to be doing that same job forever. 

And it kind of goes back to your fundraising situation, man. It’s like, Hey, um, it’s a great job, it’s a great opportunity. Like you got some really good skills that you might not even realize are worth a lot. That if you learn how to sell yourself and market yourself, you could probably like climb the ladder just because you had that experience. But I think being able to constantly improve and change yourself and not like conform into that is such a big thing. So that was some really good advice.

Tyalor:  I’ve heard that before and usually it doesn’t quite click the first time, right? When you hear things like that. Oh, okay, this person is giving me some information, but hearing it from my parents, hearing it from him, um, just also hearing it in videos. 

That’s the reason I wanted to travel to Vietnam as well. My wife being from there, but it’s seeing new perspectives and exploring new things is probably the most valuable thing besides education.

Fabian: Well, let’s talk about that. So one of the big things of this Social Wisdom series is that I want to have people on, like yourself, that have a story to tell. That have your own journey, you know, the ups and downs, but there is a few key things that you’ve identified and felt like have really helped you improve or change your life. Would you say that one of them is that you have actually left the United States? You’ve traveled and you’ve seen different environments. You’ve seen a third world country. You’ve seen places where you can buy a full meal at $1. Would you say that’s one of them?

Tyalor: Yeah, it definitely is. I think the one thing that made me realize the most was like Jamaica and Vietnam were the two biggest things that had actually made me realize that financially, you should be secure. But also, it won’t lead to you being happy. Money doesn’t buy happiness. 

In Jamaica they had met, um, I think it was a tour guide, and then as we were driving, all the houses were like a quarter way built and people were living in them and they weren’t even fully complete houses. My father had asked him, why are these houses not completed? Why, why are they just all, you know, stone and then a window and that’s it? And there’s a bunch of framework for the rest of the house. And the guy was like, Oh, they take like 20 to 30 years to build the houses because they’re on an Island. So they have to have everything imported from other countries and other places because they don’t have enough resources on the Island itself. And seeing that and how happy the people who were there just also made me think, a bunch of money won’t make me happy. 

My first trip to Vietnam, I was kind of expecting it to be like Japan, in a way. Where like, you know, lights, there’s neon everywhere. It’s like the night life’s really like picking up, everyone’s drinking. There’s tons of like people partying, like a party life at night. 

I got there, to Vietnam, and it kind of was underwhelming for me at first. You’re expecting all these skyscrapers, all this nightlife, all these cars and stuff like that. And then you get there at like, I think I had arrived there 1:00 AM, so there wasn’t anyone out and it was like dark. We had stopped by this restaurant on the side of the road to get pho and that was my first meal in Vietnam. 

I didn’t have any cash at the time. So, uh, her parents had paid for us and I was like, Oh, how much is this? My wife’s like, Oh no, no, no. Don’t don’t, don’t worry about it, it was only like $5. And there was like six of us. I was like, okay, this is something I can get with. 

Going through like downtown Saigon, walking around, seeing people, they were happy. Even the homeless people, like you can’t even tell they’re homeless, because they probably had housing by the government. But very little people that were just sitting on the street begging for money. If they didn’t have money, they would be working and you interact with these people, and even if I couldn’t speak Vietnamese at that time, they were very inviting and caring and happy to see that someone is there visiting them or buying food from them.

And that’s also something that had shocked me because I spent half of the month in the city, in downtown Saigon and then the other half in the countryside. So I’m talking about like a city about the size of maybe a big high school, the population felt like 500, 600 in that little tiny town. And, Oh man, that was probably most like at peace I’ve ever actually felt.

Fabian: Do you like that?

Tyalor: Yeah, I loved it. You’re on vacation for a month and you’re just sitting there relaxing, sitting in a hammock, drinking a beer, or having pho for 25 cents or going for a smoothie for like 50 cents. I think that’s the best I’ve ever felt in my life is like going to Vietnam and just relaxing and seeing that money doesn’t really make you happy.

Fabian: And without necessarily having all the luxuries and the hustle and bustle and everything like that. Like sometimes the simplicity is the more important piece.

Tyalor: I need to improve, like my mindset on this stuff. Finding ways to like earn a steady income, but not to the point where it’s like, I’m crippled by it. Just like enjoying moments, like the vacation, enjoying moments to just relax and enjoy life.

Fabian: I love that you said that, man. I mean, that’s such a powerful realization. It’s interesting to me that you had it happen to you in a similar way. I mean, I had an up and down, but because I grew up traveling so much and living in third world countries, like actually living there, also vacationing, but mostly living, it gave me like this humility and this perspective very early on. It’s just like, Whoa. Like the people in the U.S. are living a completely different world than everywhere else pretty much. I mean, there’s Europe and like you said, Japan, Tokyo, those places are much more similar. But you go to some place, like you said, like Vietnam, you go to Cozumel, you go to Jamaica, I lived in Jamaica, and you go in the not touristy area. And like I said, there’s these homes that are broken down. You’re walking by and there’s literally, like I had to walk to school, and every day I would walk by like just random families like just sitting out front in they’re like half broken shack smoking weed, you know, at like 8:00 AM. Imagine seeing that as a kid, you’re like, Whoa, what’s happening. And then they have like their goats and their chickens that are like walking next to them on their bicycle. It’s just a completely different world. 

And I’m worried about, you know, what, I’m going to eat tonight. I’m worried about, Oh, where are we going to go on a vacation? I’m worried about, when am I going to get new shoes? It really puts things in perspective very quickly. And you’re like, okay, like those things just, they don’t matter in the grand scheme of things, like maybe short-term and that’s such a powerful thing to realize at a young age. I mean, even realizing it at 21, 22, 23, like it already puts you at a different level than so many other people, man. It’s a reality check and it makes you kind of reprioritize things. 

Realizing that money, doesn’t get you everything. Like, I think money’s awesome. Getting that freedom, you know, to do what you want, where you want, but I worked in sales. It’s very high paying potential and the harder you work, the more you can earn. But then it’s like, you’re working so much, you’re stressing out, pressure of quota, all these things, and then you get it and then you’re like, okay, this is awesome. But now what? You know, is this it? Like now I don’t have time to actually spend it with the people that I care about or all these things and that’s when you start taking a step back. So I love that you said that, like, I would summarize what you said as it’s really just like that perspective and humility, but I’m curious if you agree with that. 

Tyalor: It kind of made me bitter in a way when I came back, uh, the first time from Vietnam. I went back to work to fundraise for the same company. It made me very bitter at that job, about what people had complained about. Like the stuff that they would tell me why they can’t stop and talk or donate to a charity.

It kinda made my perspective on what Americans think of like necessities. So like when you’re out in public and you hear someone say, Oh my phone’s on 10% right after you come back from third world country, it kind of does make you a little bit bitter of like how people see that. 

There’s actually people in these countries that are living on, like, I think Vietnam’s average salary is about  $700 a month and they’re happier than the people who are making double, triple, even quadruple what they’re making. It made me very grateful for what I have. All this that I have right now, don’t take it for granted, enjoy it. 

Fabian: I love a man. So you would say the key to having a better life is traveling and expanding your horizons. Would you agree with that?

Tyalor: Yeah, definitely. Nas Daily and Drew Binsky, they’re two guys that travel around the world and they’ve done like collab videos a lot. I think Nas Daily has traveled to all the countries in the world and his horizons on like perspectives on how people act, how people see politics, how people, um, see life and their outcome of life is way more than what I think anyone can get. But he has expanded that by traveling to these other countries and seeing and experiencing it himself.

Fabian: Well, I love that you shared that because, um, one of the things that I was gonna bring up right before, which is very relevant that you said, you know this guy traveled so much and had so much more knowledge and perspective. As you keep watching, make sure you join the live streams, man. Like I think you should interact and, you know, hype people up, get them on. I want this to be very conversational, build a community and have people like share these kinds of stories. I think a lot of people just need an avenue to share.

 But the game is really access of knowledge. So what do I mean by that? There’s just so much out there that most people are just not aware of. Like you said, let’s talk about American, sorry Americans were foreigners, we’re gonna criticize you guys a little bit. They just live in like this bubble, right? And it’s a great, like, there’s no reason that they don’t have to change, but once they start complaining and all these things. It’s like, Hey guys, there’s so much more out there. And once you check it out, you realize, Oh, Hey, well now you know about this country. Now, you know about this country. Now, you know about currency, now you know about in Vietnam, they make this much money and the cost of living is this. As you start learning, you know, you start growing because of that, you just have so much more knowledge. 

But here comes the other part, there is a dark side to knowledge. And what do I mean by that? Because if you, once you know these things, you can’t go back. Like now I’m aware of, Hey, There’s so much more in the world, the beauty of traveling, the, you know, money, isn’t this be all, end all. And I almost, I’m glad I have knowledge. I don’t regret it, but there’s times where I’m just like, ah, like when you hear someone say something, you just know it’s wrong. So curious to know what you feel about that piece. Like the access of knowledge, like blessing and a curse.

Tyalor: There was several times where like for fundraising, where you get to the point when you’re in sales where you can influence what someone does. In a way it’s subtle things where you implant that seed in their brain and they’re like doing it.  For example, I don’t know if this would kind of relate to it, but like my parents. As a kid, you want gifts for Christmas. So the older you get, you realize that it’s not, the big fat man isn’t there.

Fabian: Oh no kids don’t watch this. You guys didn’t hear anything.

Tyalor: The older I got, I knew that was not a thing. So by like middle school, I had used it to like, Oh, what’s he getting me for Christmas? And I don’t think they had quite realized that I knew, up until I was too old, to like, I would say 11th grade. I kind of had abused that, but I’m pretty sure by like 10th or 9th, they knew.

 People can be so much more easily influenced when you have that knowledge. Especially when fundraising, like one reason people will be like, Oh, why can’t you donate? And I wouldn’t say it’d be manipulating in a bad way, but there are ways that that can be used in a better way. It’s something like where you have to kind of hold yourself back from doing that because you know, it’s not right.

Fabian: Well, let’s talk about that for a second, man. Um, do you feel like that was a skillset, going back to something that I asked you way before, is that you got kind of like from your fundraising? I know that you mentioned that you did it already as a kid and I mean, a lot of kids are good at it. Basically what you’re describing was that you started learning social skills, to a certain extent. You started understanding human psychology, body language and that’s how you get better at sales and all this stuff and communication. But you’re right, there comes a point where, like you said, you can manipulate people. And you’re right, you have to basically take a step back and be like, well, no, I can’t do that. But it’s scary. I mean, what are your thoughts on that? 

Tyalor: Yeah. It was like psychologically. It was just like, there was always a game that we would do, um, fundraising.  It was kind of a fun game where, you would do something, like hand motion, facial gesture and the person that you were talking to would actually copy what you would do and they would do it unconsciously.

When someone would stop and talk, they would have a closed like position. So they’d be sitting there like this, listening to you. And then if you took a step back, like if I’m this close to someone or this close to someone talking to them, if I took a step back, they would open up and be more open. 

So I think the negative part of that and the dark side of that is, it’s scary. It honestly is scary knowing that you can do that and have some influence how they act in a certain way, just based off your own facial expressions or their facial expressions and being able to tell what they’re thinking. 

Fabian: Well, let’s start, uh, let’s start concluding here, because this, this has been a great talk man. One of the key things that we talk about is success, right? Mindset, perspective, all these other things. But one of the things that I think a lot of people in today’s day and age really, like, hyper-focus on is, Oh, I need to be successful, I need to be successful. We have a definition here at Chaminger and I want to know what you think about the definition and what would you say is success to you? So the way we define it is, it’s success is the point where you feel great with what you have currently accomplished in your life. You’re happy with yourself, with your worth, with your value and you don’t feel the need to have other people validate it.

So that is how we define it and how I have found myself feeling successful. Curious, what are your thoughts on that? And then what would you say is a good definition for it, if you had to give one.

Tyalor: I would say that success is like basically being able to not be stuck in a constant loop. But also enjoying life and also, um, being at peace with what you’re doing and who you’re with. 

Fabian: Got it. Well, leave us your thoughts on, I know we talked about it throughout the entire episode, but on the concept of always be improving, I kind of want to hear your concluding thoughts.

Tyalor: I think this is one thing for always be improving, is don’t get too comfortable, always want to learn something new.

Fabian: I love it. I love it. That’s that’s a perfect summary of what we talked about. So Taylor, thanks so much for being on this episode of Social Wisdom. Now is the part where you get to talk about anything that is relevant to you. Whatever it is that you want to mention and shout out. 

Tyalor: The shout out is mostly to people who have been in my life and are in my life right now. I think mostly you and sales for like work-wise. The sales aspect of it was pretty big for me. And meeting you in Wyndham was probably like, it was kinda weird to me, like how, how you’re so happy and the sales part of it was just so exhausting. But you were like, able to keep doing that, just go through that, like it was nothing. I think that also makes me who I am socially as well, from sales and doing the things that I do now and how I interact with people in certain ways.

Fabian: Awesome, man. I love it. Well, I’m glad that I could inspire you seeing that because at the end of the day, that’s, what more does anyone really want? You know, create a legacy, help people out. The key takeaway from Taylor Yu, is travel guys, you will learn so much, you’ll expand so much.

Tyalor: Travel, learn, learn a new language. Last shout out is I think the person who most importantly made me who I am, is my wife, because as much as she may yell at me for doing stupid stuff, that also makes me a better person.

Fabian: Blink four times if she’s there and she made you say that.

All right, man. Well, I appreciate you. Thanks for, for hopping on and see you guys next time on Social Wisdom.

Hey, my fellow Chamingers, thanks so much for experiencing the Social Wisdom of the week. We hope you absorbed as much as you could. Please leave a comment if you learned something or if you have another guest whose wisdom you’d love to hear. If the message is helping you, please remember to check out our Ko-fi donation page so we can also Become Xceptional. Follow our journey on all our social medias and subscribe so you will never miss an opportunity to #BeASponge. Chaminger out.

May 11, 2021

Real Talk: Reframing your Mindset Part 1 released!

We are excited to have just released our fifth episode and Part 1 of Real Talk: Reframing your Mindset today. We have been growing steadily and are enjoying hearing your feedback regarding the Chaminger message. It seems things are resonating, but people are feeling a bit shy to admit that they may need to go on this journey to gain self-awareness and self-esteem. We do want to remind people that we have an email or you can contact us privately on all social medias. We read and respond to all inquiries, stories and will always keep your anonymity. Just remember, the first step is acknowledging and identifying the need…let us help you overcome the fear of embracing the journey to #BecomingXceptional.

Look forward to the launch of our new series – Social Wisdom this Wednesday May 12th. You do not want to miss this show, where we explore the benefits of learning from others and their life experiences.

Additionally, we have released multiple new DAILY CC episodes – our vlog that showcases the behind-the-scenes of Chaminger and what it takes to build a brand and podcast from zero! Watch here!

Are you ready to have the real talk with yourself? It is time to listen to someone else continue their self-reflection journey and see if you can relate or do the same things. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Listen to Real Talk: Reframing your Mindset Part 1

Real Talk Episode #5: Reframing your Mindset Part 1
Real Talk Episode #5: Reframing your Mindset Part 1

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hola Amigos. My name is Fabian Chagoya.

Alejandro: And I am Alejandro Chagoya. 

Fabian: And we’re the hosts of Real Talk, a show all about the journey of self-improvement and getting to know oneself in which we discuss the harsh truths related to finding success. 

Alejandro, so obviously every episode things are changing, things are progressing. We’re now on our third talk and I would love for you to be sitting on this chair right in front of me or across from me and talking to that microphone over there. But the world doesn’t have that right now.

Alejandro: That’s right, that’s right. It’s too bad, but we make the most of it as it is.  The world is changing and we need to adapt. And frankly, I think based on our life experiences, we’re kind of ideally suited to that.

Fabian: Yes, we are. So before we get into that, cause that’s definitely gonna be one of the topics that we talk about today. How do you think this whole Real Talk thing is going? I mean, it’s something that is not, I would say it doesn’t come natural to you especially. It’s also something so different than what I’ve been doing. There’s some natural soft skills that lend themselves to this sort of thing, but this is a new experience for both of us, more so you. So curious to hear your thoughts on the whole progression of this journey.

Alejandro:  It really is rather fascinating. Looking back on it, I’d say probably in the first recording, our first talk, there’s probably a bit more awkwardness. Now that we’ve been practicing going through this a few times, I think we’re getting out the kinks and I feel like  the words just are flowing a little easier.  Just  a more natural conversation is ongoing, I’d say.

And I think that’s just really a reflection of what we’re aiming for here with this Real Talk. Just a talk between two brothers here, engaging in some honest, sincere conversation on a diversity of topics.

Fabian: Absolutely. I think that is such a perfect summary of how it’s been going and I feel exactly the same way. I also feel like it’s been a great opportunity for us to even connect at a deeper level.  Yes, we have had a relationship, we’ve had a friendship, we’ve had a brotherhood, but how many times do you ever have these kind of deep conversations with someone? It’s rare, so I’ve loved it.

Alejandro: Oh, I agree.

Fabian: Alejandro, let’s get into the, not so fun part of Real Talk, which is kind of like the check-in. How have things been going? Have you been journaling? Have you been self-reflecting? Have you been writing positive self affirmations? How has all that been progressing?

Alejandro: I have been doing a fair bit of self-reflecting. One thing that we discussed in our last session, was the issue about  self-worth. And I was also watching and listening to some videos regarding that, and just taking some time to think. Why exactly do I feel that I don’t have a sense of worth. For example, I was thinking back, one thing that  came to mind during this reflection, I had these aspirations to be noble and heroic. Like some of my childhood heroes of like,  Luke Skywalker, Optimus prime. Then later, I’d say even Jesus to some extent from our background, obviously serving as, inspiration for the kind of person I wanted to be. Maybe St. Francis of Assisi and Saint Nicholas later on as well. 

One thing that always resonated strongly with me was, uh, like with fairytales and historically the concept of chivalry of Knights. It was always something that motivated me to be the best person that I could be. But at the same time, there was this sort of negative aspect, this idea of death before dishonor. That I couldn’t do anything that would disgrace me or my family, my country. And so that kind of tied into the whole fear of failure and that I felt that if I failed, I was basically letting everyone down, including myself and that was completely unacceptable. As a result, came about this idea that it would be preferable to die than to just, uh, fail. If you have that mentality then failure is not an option and you can never accept. Thinking back about it now, that was an incredibly toxic sort of, uh, viewpoint.

There’s a lot of historical connections, you could say, around the world about the sole concept of honor. But I mean, just, it was obviously something problematic and I was kind of troubled to really think about that just the other day. Then I was trying then to think about the positive aspects like we were just talking about with the self-affirmations. And thinking, okay, well, what are my strengths? What are positive aspects about me?  I mean, I think about them, but then I’m kind of quick to dismiss them, to set them aside. Oh, I, so I have these traits, but they don’t really matter. And I think part of the thing we were talking about was try to reassess oneself, try then to sell yourself. Not only to other people, but I guess in a way to yourself.

Fabian: That was excellent that you shared so much because that’s the whole point of the exercise. It’s really just to start getting almost, like some people would call it, the juices flowing, but it’s really to start viewing yourself from a different perspective. You start realizing that you had this one narrative about yourself all these years, months, decades, whatever it was.  You thought yourself in such a way and viewed yourself in such a light and then all of a sudden it’s like a curtain was removed or lifted and then all of a sudden the light changed and you’re like, wait a second, hold on. 

And I feel like that is so valuable to see and experience, because for example, you said that why were you so harsh on yourself? Why did you have to burden all the responsibility? And you know, why, if you had a failure, did that mean that the entire family had an issue? And I almost wanted to jump in right there. And I was like, were you raised by Asian parents? Sounded like a situation where you’re like-

Alejandro: No, I mean, I always, I between chivalry and like Japanese Bushido, there’s some overlap. So certainly I think there, I kind of adopted that. I guess you could say.

Fabian: Well, I love it. I mean, those are great things to strive for. They’re great morals, they’re great codes and ethics to live by. There’s nothing wrong with them, but there’s also realizing that we live in a different era and a different world and adapting to it and just embracing it.

 There’s definitely a lot that could be said from everything you shared, but I love the fact that you just shared it because that is the most important step of this.  Just embracing and acknowledging and identifying the things that are going on in your life or the things that have happened in your past. Because until you do that, you can never move on, overcome, or accept. So I commend you for starting that process. How did it feel? I know you talked about it a little bit, but I just want you to reiterate on it, like writing positive self-affirmations about yourself. 

This is something you had never done much before or ever, right? So, how did that piece feel, writing those things? Was it  almost like, yeah right, I’m not really these things. Or did you write things that you hoped you want to be, or did you just write things that you thought I might be? Tell us a little bit more about that.

Alejandro: I would say it started off feeling like, okay, well, this is what people say about me, that these are positive traits. At first, it’s like, okay, well, and you’re kind of just going through the motions.  Then as you go along, you’re like thinking, you know, there’s something to this here, this is true.

Then you’re starting to feel a little better slowly, slowly about yourself. You know,  there are some good things about me and maybe I should take them more to heart. I shouldn’t really dwell on this notion that I’m not good enough for myself or for other people, I don’t live up to these aspirations that I have for myself. That I’ve kind of settled in a mediocrity, as I see it at times. 

One thing that I know I’m very good at actually is that I always trying to encourage other people and boost them up, but I can’t seem to do the same for myself and that’s really something I need to work on.

Fabian: I think there’s a lot to be said there. You said you can easily boost other people up and that’s because you can see the good in people and that’s a skillset, it really is.  You were able to analyze, pause and be like, Oh, Hey, you have this, you have this, you might have some flaws, but these are the good things in you. And you tell them because you know it’s going to impact them in a positive light. Fact. 

So when you talk to yourself, do you talk to see yourself as if you were talking to one of these coworkers, to a friend, to a family, to a stranger? Or do you talk to yourself as if you know yourself, you’re talking to yourself as Alejandro and you’re giving yourself the harshest criticism ever, which one? Stranger or the known person? 

Alejandro: It is definitely the latter, the known person. Hmm.

Fabian: Exactly, that’s what most people do. You have to talk to yourself as if you’re your number one fan. If you’re the most loyal fan boy to whatever it is, like how many people actually do that? Right.

Alejandro: That’s true. Sadly. True. Yeah.

Fabian: Anytime someone gives you a compliment, no matter what it is, yo man, like you got nice shoes, you got a nice shirt, you got whatever.  Write that down in your positive self-affirmations. You write that down because you might not necessarily believe it, but someone else did. When you write it down, what happens is you start thinking about it. Why did someone say that? Why would someone say that? What were their intentions? Did they have intentions? Do I actually do that?

Self-reflecting journaling, writing the positive self-affirmations, never stopped doing that, keep doing that. It’s the start, it’s basically brainwashing your own mind to believe those things about yourself. You know, you are amazing, you are good, you’re strong, you’re better than you think you are and it’s constantly thinking that.  Anytime someone compliments you, write it down, think about it, believe it, really believe it.

But let’s talk about finding your passion. So the reason why this was such a good transition was because believing these things about yourself is key. So I want to talk about this because I feel like it’s something that most people struggle with when they try to find their passion. They’re like what can I do? I found this one job, I’m good at it, this is it. I found my peak. Like, there’s nothing else I could possibly do. I will never be as good at anything else. That’s not true. You have to learn how to interview and you have to learn how to resume. So I recommend that everyone should pause, like maybe once a year and just write a refresh resume. And what I mean by that is it’s really just self reflecting to find your strengths. 

At your current job, did you have any projects that you saved, that all your coworkers just dropped the ball and you were the reason that they succeeded or things like that? And then you started realizing, Oh, wait, I did this, I accomplished this, I was the reason this happened and all of a sudden your confidence starts building. You start thinking about, what else? Maybe 10 years ago, I worked this job and I did this. Maybe five years ago, I worked this other job and I did this. Or I’ve been at the same company for seven years and I’ve done so many things and I’ve gotten a promotion every year. You start reflecting and looking back and all of a sudden things start changing. 

Let’s just say, um, your entire team, I’ll just relate it to like a sales job. My entire team was always demotivated sales, whenever they would work a certain location in Seattle. Whenever they worked with me, we always had, let’s say, 300% more sales than when anyone else worked there. So I was literally the reason why people were having more success because I was telling them, Hey, yeah, this place sucks, but you get one sale here. Now you get another 10 anywhere else, you’re making money.

Reframing their mindset and you start putting that as an accomplishment, it changes things. And you all of a sudden start realizing your strengths, your benefits, your Whoa, that was me. Other people felt the same way about me. And that is why I say it’s so strong to self-reflect and almost like rewrite your resume every so often, even if it’s just mentally, because you start realizing that you are way better at so many things than you think. 

Then you take those pieces that you accomplished on your resume, and you learn how to talk about them in your interview. Because as long as you can talk about anything that’s in your resume, plus more in your interview, you could literally even make up shit and people will believe it. It’s just, you have to be able to talk about it with conviction.  At the end of the day, I wouldn’t recommend making it up, but it’s just really reframing-

Alejandro: Oh, of course not. No, we certainly would never recommend that.

Fabian: It’s reframing how you see your work experience. You know, like, Hey, I was the reason why everyone on my team became punctual or whatever. So curious to hear your thoughts on the resume part and then we’ll talk about the interview piece.

Alejandro: I agree. I think you raise an excellent point with the resume. Like you said, we tend to often, um, not take into consideration a lot of the skills that we have. Of course, the harder stuff, as well as the soft skills, things that we think we don’t give enough credence, enough importance to that are actually rather quite valuable.

The whole changing, maybe the atmosphere of the work environment and making people more productive, encouraging them to be more punctual. So these are all, very important points. And like you said, taking the time to reflect on that for your resume because otherwise, you’re very likely to just leave it as a sort of stagnant document that you update every so often. By taking the time to update it, not only are you updating it for a more pragmatic purpose, but also for a personal one as well. You’re, you’re taking a stock in inventory of yourself and basically reassessing how you’re going about.  Then you can see how you’ve improved, what you can change, what you can focus on to maybe improve upon, to develop. So I think that’s actually a very solid point that you made here.

Fabian: It was one of the things that I preach about this, but it just happened recently to me.  When I left my last job, I did that and I’m like. It gave me such a confidence boost,  I went from like, let’s say  80% confidence. It was insane because I’m like, Oh my God, I accomplished this. I was put into this absurd scenario in my job that I had no right being.  People that have 30 years of experience don’t have the balls to do this and I was thrown into that. And I not only surpassed it and I sold like a University in Colorado something that I had no rights selling them, without any support. And like, you’re like, Whoa, I’m apparently pretty good at my stuff. 

When you pause and self reflect like that, you can kind of see yourself almost in a more unbiased light, because it’s facts. Especially when you start writing it down and you have to be concise and just be like, Hey, this is who I am.

So that goes to where I was saying, like learning how to interview. An interview is just selling yourself. People use interview, but if you could just replace the word interview with, Hey, we’re going to bring you into a 30 minute or 45 minute or one hour talk where you just have to sell yourself. That’s what it really should be called, cause that’s what it is. It’s selling yourself. Like if I asked you to sell Star Wars, if I asked you to sell a book, if I asked you to sell your suit, your headset, your computer, whatever you have. You might be able to do it, you might not, but you have to sell yourself. That’s what an interview is. 

So it’s why I tell everyone that they should dabble a little bit in sales and learning public speaking and body language, because you do that and you have such a leg up on everyone else.  

Everything in life at the end of the day is a transaction. It’s a negotiation, it’s a sale. Like even, almost just crossing the street and I just walk straight ahead. People have to move out of my way, I don’t move. You know, like that’s just, stuff like that is already even a sale and a negotiation.  It’s just the way you walk, the way you look, the way you’re marching ahead. Like there’s so much that goes into every single interaction and it’s kind of crazy. It can lead you down a dark path, which I wouldn’t recommend for most people to go down right away. But at the end of the day, if you really want to learn about public speaking and humans and everything, read a few sales books or just Google some articles about basic sales skills or stuff like that. You’re going to be impressed with what you learn. 

So that’s why I wanted to talk about that because you do that resume experience or exercise, and you start self-reflecting on yourself. And now you have to take those moments, those experiences and you have to apply them to a resume, or sorry to an interview. How do you sell yourself? Like how do you make yourself sound good? How do you believe it? You really have to believe it and you start repeating it. Especially, let’s say, if you had a few not so good interviews. By your fifth, sixth, seventh, you have the same story, you’ve refined it, you’ve come up with who you are.

Like for example, most interviewers suck. Their boss just said, Hey, you have to interview someone. So what are they going to do? They’re going to just be like, Hey man, where are you from? What do you do? What’s your story?  And that’s how they interview. They don’t know better. So what do you do? You start telling your stories. So getting good at telling your story, which is one of the things that we’re doing and analyzing right now, is so critical. Getting to the key moment, sharing the things that peak their interest. If you know that they’re a company that sells a certain product. Or this guy maybe you already had his name, you could research him on LinkedIn or Facebook or whatever and it says that he’s a fan of this football team. You’re like, Hey, you know, and I just so happened to be at the Super Bowl last year and this and this and this, and then now, whatever.

Or for example, you just throw out certain things that your boss can connect with. Like when I got my last sales job, University of Washington, Mexican-German, grandma from Oaxaca. All those things gave me so many more opportunities to connect. Obviously he hit every single one of them, which is literally a miracle, but you think about stuff like that and you’re like, Whoa. 

Sharing those things are selling yourself. And if I was in your scenario and looking for a new job now, I’d be like, I’ve lived in six countries. I moved every two to three years. I am an expert at change and adaptability. I am good at learning new languages and picking up new skills and all these things. And all of a sudden people are like, oh my goodness. We want people that can learn quickly, that can adapt quickly, that can change quickly. That if we want all of a sudden sell a new product or change our entire business focus, you could learn and you could do it without any problem, because you’ve done it before.

You’re like, all my coworkers looked up to me. I trained my coworkers, I did this, I covered for my boss, I saved my boss. All of a sudden it’s like, you’re altruistic. You see what I mean? You learn how to storytell, you learn all these things. And as you can tell, cause I’m talking very quickly, I’m very passionate about this because it’s literally sales, but it’s selling yourself. It’s knowing how to present all the facts about you. Which is why I say journal because you start writing these things and you’re like, how do I spin this one sentence about me into a sale?  If I was a product, how would I sell myself to someone who wanted to buy it?

What are your thoughts about all that?

Alejandro: I mean, you really know your stuff, Fab. Uh,  this is all so true. I mean, like you said, it’s really just a transaction of selling yourself to the best of your ability. To convince that you are the right person for the job.

It’s really such an important skill. And the fact that it also has this personal application here of bolstering yourself, essentially. To feel good about yourself, about your accomplishments and not to be down in the dumps. That’s really invaluable if you really think about it.

I mean, maybe it sounds corny, but these are all the things that, that come to mind and just from our talk and I think this has a lot of worth.

Fabian: I do appreciate you saying those kinds of words. It’s something I’m so passionate about, obviously selling and sales. It was one of the best things that happened to me. It brought me to this almost dark spot as well. Like I need to do self-improvement to get better, to convince people, to be believable. But it makes you grow so fast because you start doing so much self-reflection, if you want to be good.  

I want to talk about doing all the self-reflection and finding your passion also leads to the discussion about what are your interests and what are your passions? What are the things that you’re into? And one of those things that I know that we both are, but I can just recently relate to, is that fantasy and sci-fi had an explosion recently. But back in the day, it was kind of like up and coming.

Just today, I finished the second season of Star Wars, The Mandalorian. And it was a pleasure, it was an absolute joy being able to watch that and have that experience.  I mean, Star Wars has had it up and up and downs, but it’s one of the OGs. It’s one of the originals from back in the day.  It’s kind of cool to see the progression and all that stuff, but it has also created this environment of expectation, fan service, newcomers and how easily accessible it is. Access, the question of access. And also the question of crazy fans.  Luckily, I mean, I was in a family that our parents were into it, you and my sister were extremely into it and I was pretty into it. But it got to a point where  I was never at the same level you guys were. 

I know there’s people that are like obsessed over Oh, this comic book said this and this book said this and Oh my God, this is not true to this, um, commercial in this third world country that they aired. And I’m like, I don’t care about that stuff. 

For example, when I was introducing Stephani to it, I told her don’t necessarily pay attention to all the names. Just pay attention to the overall plots. And as you get more familiarized with it, you can focus on the names and the specifics. There was a line that I made fun of watching with her and was like, Hey, go visit this Jedi in the forest planet of Corvus to meet with the Jedi, Ahsoka Tano and in the city of Aktor in and the darkness of Choloo or something like that, it was like four crazy names. And if you think about that sentence anywhere else, you’d be like, what? I have no idea what’s happening, but it’s a fantasy world, a sci-fi world, and it’s cool to see. 

But overall I loved the experience. It was great for a newcomer and it was one of my passions. What I’m interested in. It was one of the things that reminded me a lot of my childhood, which was the key. I know I said a lot of things right now. But it’s the key that I want to talk about is, it really brought back a lot of nostalgia as well. And nostalgia is powerful, nostalgia is so powerful and I’m like, Oh, it felt good to see that.

So I’m kind of curious to hear all your thoughts on that. If you’ve seen it, how you felt about like the topic about newcomers, fan boys, fan service, fantasy, how hard it’s to get into and nostalgia, let me know.

Alejandro: Sure thing. Right. So starting right off the bat there with that line you mentioned, I mean, I personally always have really appreciated verisimilitude, basically the whole world building aspect of something that seems seamlessly integrated with the world. So, I mean, we have all these names and that, for maybe a newcomer, might seem a little daunting to get involved into. But like you said, for someone who’s then a little more invested and has come to appreciate it a little more then you can feel like you can connect to it. That it’s a real world thing, uh, real-world in a sense that it fits with the setting. Not that it’s something that doesn’t mesh. If it sticks out like a sore thumb, because it feels like it wouldn’t work in the setting that it’s in. Then obviously  it removes you from the work that you’re watching, you’re reading, you’re experiencing. And I think that’s something that’s really important to having a proper enjoyment of it. 

As for newcomers, I also watched and really enjoyed “The Mandalorian”. I felt it wasn’t incredibly friendly to newcomers. In that, uh, we are basically being reintegrated into the Star Wars setting there. Uh, with a Space Western, as it is, the series. And which, in a way, ties back to it to Star Wars as all time roots.

I mean, Star Wars at its core, is a space opera, a space fantasy, or science fantasy, but very much focuses more on that space Western aspect. And obviously we’re not going to deal really with spoilers here. But yes, I really enjoyed it. 

I felt like one serious problem Star Wars has always had, is that there is this tendency to sort of rehash and retread a lot of pre-existing things. And there’s this desperate need to try to go into new territory. And I felt like “The Mandalorian” was a solid middle ground of taking a lot of the old concepts and story ideas and bringing new blood into it. Fresh, fresh ideas and moving onward from what we had, taking the new and the old, and making something wonderful. And I think that’s really something important. Because like you said, there’s this problem often that we go back to nostalgia and we focus on things that we enjoyed, but sometimes then we don’t really capture the essence of it. We get a sort of bare bones, a caricature, a mimicry of what it was to try to recapture that feeling, but it then falls shorts. And I think we, we managed to break new ground and I think that was really important.

 As you were saying that nostalgia is really powerful. For example, just breaking slightly from topic, in my studies there, in my degree, we talked briefly about politics and politics as marketing and how they tied together. And one concept that was brought up was about the love mark. Which was basically of making an emotional connection with something so that you become so invested in it that you would pursue it to whatever end. Because that was basically part of your identity. 

For people like you and me, for example, I know that things like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Disney, Nintendo have their imprint on me, I can fully acknowledge that. There’s a very strong pull of that nostalgia, that love mark. You wants to then, uh, get invested in it. But then of course, then there’s the counterpart that you maybe dwell too much in a nostalgia. And you also wanted to have room to grow, to move on from that.

Fabian: So you almost feel like nostalgia, while it has its benefits, especially in the marketing sense. Cause there’s people that are so attached to it, like they need it, they chase it like if their life depends on it. But it also comes to a point where it doesn’t let people grow, it doesn’t let people expand. And it almost is a mockery because it’s like, Hey guys, we know you don’t need us to improve. 

Let’s say, let’s just talk in sales sense. Okay, we have this product that we’re going to bring back, let’s just talk beanie babies. Beanie babies are back and they’re exactly the same as they were 25, 20 years ago, no improvements. There’s going to be a lot of people that buy them purely for the nostalgia aspect alone, but could they have been improved with the modern day technologies and things of today? It still embraced that, the nostalgia aspect, but be a better version of what they were 20 years ago. Do you feel like there’s that line where so many companies and people, in general, just rely on nostalgia almost as a crutch rather than using it as a tool. What are your thoughts of that?

Alejandro: Oh, definitely. Yes. I definitely feel that there’s this tendency of two extremes. On one hand, like you said, we go to the full throwback. It’s like, Oh, we know you love this, so we’re going to basically just repackage it in a new form. Or as-is, because if you don’t, you’re basically committing some sort of heresy and it’s not the same anymore, so that’s a failure. Or you got the complete opposites, like we have to diverge, we need to create something new, this was how it was in the past. So now we have to kill the past and we need to move forward to something completely different to give a whole new experience.

Fabian: It’s so interesting hearing your take on it because I feel like these are things that are in all aspects of life. They’re in business, personal life, sales, series.  Nostalgia is such a thing, but I just find it so fascinating to hear that you called them like these love marks things, where like you chase after them, you need them, you want them. 

I think those are a key thing that you need to look into when you start really doing a deep dive into yourself of finding your passion. Or what are the things you really appreciate, because these things had an impact and influence on you. And they cannot be ignored. You don’t need to be, like, a Lord of the Rings scholar and study the New Zealand geography and topography. But you need to be like, this was something that I grew up with, that I appreciated, that I love. I need to at least take it into consideration whenever I make a decision, because it had a significant impact on my life.

So obviously our small talk segment became long talk, but there was a lot of great conversation and so many important pieces to really focus on there. And I’m sure so many of you can relate. We definitely want to hear if any of that resonated with you. Do you guys appreciate that segment? Do you want us to get more into just the Real Talk piece faster? Let us know.

Becoming an expert on you. It’s such an important, critical piece. And I know in our last episode we were talking about where we moved next. But before that, I wanted to touch upon the topic of where or what would you consider is home? And when I say that, there’s the issue of what other people define as home, versus what we would define as home as traveling nomads. I want to hear your take on that.

Alejandro: One thing that obviously stands out is the fact that you’re always moving means that you’re not, you don’t have a constant home. As we’ve already discussed previously, the issue of other diplomat and military families would also feel similarly, that you’re always moving there’s no constant home. So one thing that was our forever constant was family. So home was where family was. What can I really say more to that, to add to that? That’s really the crux of the matter. Wherever family was, we were home and we bonded very tightly together. That was something that kept us going throughout all the changes, all the hardships. We were our constant support for each other, through all the difficulties that we faced. And we got really close.

Fabian: That’s a great summary of it. I mean, I think there’s like some quotes that you could probably find online that say that home is where love is or home is where family is. But it really hits the nail on the head when you lived our life of traveling so much. I think there’s a lot to be said about that part, when you travel so much, when you move so much. 

What is your hometown? And technically, I guess you could say it’s where you’re born. Which would be Seattle, Washington for all of us, but like really? Spoilers eventually moved back there, but until then, I would have never considered it my hometown. I couldn’t even remember it because I moved when I was three months old. So how are you supposed to be able to share that piece? How is that your hometown? I didn’t have a hometown. People would ask me, where are you from? I’m like, Oh, I’m from the U.S. And they’re like, well, no, no, no, no. Where were you born? Where did you live in? I’m like, well, I mean, it’s a long story.

Alejandro: I know, right? That’s the thing, whenever I got asked the same question, I’m like, that’s a really difficult question for me. I’m going to have to give you basically a summary of my life story to answer that question.

Fabian: But that’s so cool to say, you have a unique answer to one of the most common questions. It’s almost like any interview, well, where are you from? Or that kind of question. You have a unique answer to that. Have you ever thought about it that way?

Alejandro: That is an excellent point. I hadn’t really considered it from that aspect, but yes, that’s very true. It is very true, indeed.

Fabian: I just think about like celebrity interviews. A reporter comes up to you and is like, where are you from, sir? What’s your name and where are you from? You’re like, well, my name is Fabian Chagoya and I’m from… Well, let’s talk about that. 

I will say that not having a home, other than family, which was great. I mean, we were so close. We knew everything about each other, but there was also some things we didn’t know about each other. But it was hard because at the end of the day. Especially as we start transitioning into these next places that Alejandro will reveal soon, they’re not necessarily the most nice first world places. You start getting even more attached, but you can really even hide anything if you wanted. So it’s just, what you see is what you get. 

And what that means is though, with anything, you need to kind of sometimes almost take a break from something to appreciate it and we didn’t really have that. So we were just constantly always exposed to each other. And while we were in school, we had other friend groups and people, but let’s be real, we didn’t really hang out with them a lot because our parents didn’t want it, bad influences, not so safe countries, et cetera, et cetera. So it almost becomes a point where our family was everything. It’s what we knew, it’s what we learned. You’re reinforcing habits like it’s a self fulfilling prophecy, you’re surrounding yourself only with that circle. 

So we’re all becoming almost like the same person. Yet, at the same time, I almost feel like I didn’t even want to try really befriending people to an extreme. It was like, well, what’s the point? Even though I might’ve never verbally said that, deep down, I knew that my body and psychology was thinking that. It’s like, dude, why are you going to spend time on this random person if one year from now, you’re probably not going to see them again? What is the point? 

Maintaining relationships and friendships. I mean, I’m sure many of you can relate. I can just, as a sales guy and especially now during the pandemic where it’s harder, because proximity is such a key component of relationships and friendships. You lose that aspect and now you have to put in the extra effort. You realize, Oh wait, it takes work. Imagine if we put in the effort to maintain every single relationship from every single friendship that we had growing up in six different countries. Yeah, literally impossible. I can’t even do that, people that live 30 miles away from where I live now, in the same state. 

Curious to hear your thoughts on that piece about the home, because I feel like that also affected my opinion of home. Yeah, it was family, but it was family almost out of necessity.

Alejandro: Right, right. No, It truly is remarkable. I mean, what you just said now are basically the exact same thoughts that I had. I think it just really shows how similar we grew up. Exactly like you were saying, that the whole environment shaping our mindset and all these experiences. I agree, absolutely agree. Basically, it was pretty much the exact same thoughts I had on the matter.

Fabian: So Alejandro, let’s talk about the story again. Let’s get back to that, because I feel like there’s some deep realizations that have been discovered going down that journey. And I know we left people hanging and some people might know, but a lot of people don’t. So where to after Colorado?

Alejandro: All right then, so are you ready for this? What some people can’t believe is that Jamaica has a new bobsled team! Woo! We went to Jamaica. Can you believe it? Yeah. Oh, wow. That was something all right. I remember like you said, dad coming in saying, Hey, you know, we’re moving again and we’re moving to Jamaica. It’s like, wow. Okay. I remember at the time thinking, I think maybe we watched “Cool Runnings” a few too many times. Uh, yeah, it was odd, we did watch it in a couple of times while we were there in Denver, so that was kind of interesting. 

But it was definitely going to be a very, brand new experience because we’d been in the United States and Mexico, but culturally, these were places that were familiar to us and Jamaica was a brand new place. We were heading to the Caribbean. It was a completely, entirely different culture. And it was really going to be our first experience with a fairly dramatic bit of culture shock. Already compared to what we’d already experienced between the United States, Mexico, Germany. This was a brand new experience for the entire family, not just one part of the family. Like, Oh, we’re learning Spanish so it’s going to be an uphill struggle for us. No, this is going to be an entirely new experience for everyone in the family.

Fabian: I’m just curious, before you start going into the depths about Jamaica, because I think there’s a lot to be said about the culture shock. About the fact that you’re moving from mainland U.S., midwest, to the Caribbean. That alone. Luckily, same language. But, how much did you know about Jamaica going into that? I know that’s not something we really talked about a lot, but I know when I tell the story, it was the World Cup earlier that year, or maybe the year before, I forget. I had watched all the teams that played and Jamaica was in that World Cup. I think they were in the same group as Mexico or Germany.

And you see the team and let’s be real. And this is truly not racist, but the entire team is black and I’m just like, Oh my, that’s different. Like, especially in Denver, Colorado at that time. Colorado, I mean, still to this date is not very diverse and back then, it was even worse. You just had your Mexicans and you had your white people and it was pretty much that. There was obviously one or two maybe exceptions, but it was pretty white. 

Now you’re moving to the Caribbean where all of a sudden everyone has a different skin color and all these things. All I knew from Jamaica was really the Disney movie of the Jamaican bobsleds and the World Cup. Everyone that played soccer, they played just like the English British team. Which they went to the wings and they crossed it in, that’s how they played. And that was my knowledge going into this move. So I’m kind of curious what you knew, what your expectations were. Did you have any, or did you just go into it open-minded?

Alejandro: I mean, on one hand, I’m sure there was some semblance of being open-minded about it. Obviously it was going to be a new experience. But I, I do admit I was woefully ignorant overall about Jamaica at the time. 

 I remember, we arrived late at night at the airport and there was, they came and disinfected the entire plane. Which sounds oddly um, reminiscent of current times. We did buy a guide book, at the time. That we were studying up  to learn a bit about the culture and the people and a bit about Jamaica as a country. So we learned a fair bit, but it was obviously a lot to learn. And one thing is of course reading and another is experiencing certainly.

Which by the way, since Jamaica was a former British colony. So there was a lot of British aspects to the country. Which includes, for example, driving on the left side, as opposed to the right side. Which of course would be an interesting challenge for our parents and driving, definitely something to get used to. So there was that.

Obviously we had the heat was certainly remarkable. As you can imagine, the Midwest climate versus the Caribbean, and it was hot all the time. I remember we basically, when returning home from school and work, we would have to have the air condition up and that we found that to just make it tolerable. Wouldn’t you agree, Fabian?

Fabian: Absolutely. I mean, I think just that alone, that story about just arriving and people are coming they’re spraying stuff the airport is small, in comparison to Denver International Airport. The steering wheel is on the right versus the left. It’s super humid. All those pieces alone are already insane. And then you just have water surrounding you, different home styles, all those things alone already. Like, Whoa, what up culture shock. 

I want to hear, like, maybe give us one or two examples of a situation that happened, like outside of school that it was like, Oh my goodness, what is this? 

Hey guys. Thanks for tuning in to Real Talk. This concludes this part. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we loved making it. Please leave a comment mentioning what parts resonated with you and made you self reflect or view things differently. Please review or follow our podcast too. It helps us so much.

As always, don’t forget to follow us on all our social medias to get the full experience of #BecomingXceptional. Remember, stay amazing and tune in next week to hear what happens next on this session of Real Talk. Chaminger out.

May 10, 2021

Giveaway winner announced & My 3 Cents: #ABI Part 2 released!

Hola from Chamingers. We can’t believe we are on week 3 of having launched our podcast! My 3 Cents: #ABI Part 2 released today! Some other exciting updates. Our 2nd giveway has just completed and we have a winner for our $75 Amazon Gift Card. Congratulate Teresa Wellman! We appreciate all of you who checked us out and explored our message. It means the world to us.

We had 2 great live streams last week. Please make sure you tune in every Thursday at 2 PM MDT and Friday at 4 PM MDT. You will always have an opportunity to chat with your hosts and founders too!

Coffee stream discussing boundaries

Happy hour discussing social skills and #doitforthestory

Make sure to listen and read the transcript to the conclusion of this very special episode of My 3 Cents. Always be improving is a concept we live by and is the reason we have completely changed our lives so drastically in the past few years. Everyone should pay attention and take it to heart.

Too many people get complacent with where they’re at and feel as though they can’t or don’t need to change. Why would you willingly continue to be a victim of your circumstances? Instead gain new perspectives by moving out of your hometown, become friends with people that cheer you on, or find a job that appreciates your hard work. Leave the excuses and justifications behind and join your hosts in a discussion about one of the keys to Becoming Xceptional, the concept of #ABI – always be improving.

Listen to My 3 Cents: #ABI Part 2 released today!

My 3 Cents Episode #4: #ABI Part 2
My 3 Cents Episode #4: #ABI Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hello everybody. How are we today? My name is Fabian Chagoya.

Stephani: And my name is Stephani Furminger and you are listening to Chaminger: Becoming Xceptional. 

Fabian: And this is My 3 Cents about #ABI, always be improving.  

Welcome back to My 3 Cents by Chaminger. Thank you for joining us as we continue our previous discussion on a journey to Becoming Xceptional, since this is a multi-part episode. If you have not watched the previous segment, we highly recommend it for context, but feel free to continue and experience the valuable message delivered in this episode, regardless.

We appreciate you. We hope you enjoy listening to our 3 Cents.

 Perfect statement right there to transition to this next point, skipping. 

What does that mean? What does that involve? And I want to talk about something where it’s like, progress in one year.  I think everyone should look back at the end of the year on New Year’s, how far have I come in one year? 

The reason why I bring this up, because obviously it’s going to be probably hashtag and branded and all this stuff soon, but a Fabian year is impactful. I change a lot of one year, I grow a lot in one year, I accomplish a lot of one year, I do a lot in one year. I guarantee you, if people are watching this that knew me when I was 21 and now I’m 29, they would be like, Oh my God, look at you. Eight years, baby, eight years.

Think about what you guys have done in those eight years. The sad reality is, I guarantee you a lot of those people that are watching me, if they did get access to this eventually, they’re probably in the same spot that they were eight years ago. Dead end job, whatever it is and that’s fine for a brief period of time, but don’t you want to do more?

Is that what your dream? Is that your passion? Like those people are doing the same thing that I might’ve been doing, let’s say when I was 16. There might be still people that are working at a grocery store that I worked at when I was 16. Hey guys, 13 years later, what have you done in those 13 years? This is what I’ve done in those 13 years.

And everyone has a different life, but you realize we all have the same exact 24 hours. And that’s when things get really interesting.  

Stephani: But I will say there are, we do need grocery store workers. So, it’s okay if you’re in that job. And you know, there may be a lot of reasons why you can only do that job. Maybe it’s the hours or maybe it’s you have a family and that’s really all that you can do at the time. So there is something to be said about needing those people in those positions, but if you are looking to improve professionally, then you need to be taking those steps in order, in order to do so.

Fabian: Yep. No. You’re right. And I mean, people will eventually always fill those positions because- 

Stephani: They’re entry level positions and anyone can get them. 

Fabian: Yup. 

Stephani: Yep. 

Fabian: But there is value to people that do them and we need you guys, as evidence during the pandemic. So I will say thank you because seriously, I wouldn’t have the balls right now to be working in a grocery store every day where you’re exposed. There’s so many people that might not even be wearing masks. So- 

Stephani: Yup. 

Fabian: But going back to where I’m like, what happens if you skip steps? Um, that essentially happened to me when I got my medical software sales job. I had not done B2B sales before, and this is a job where most people had, like, seven to 15 years of experience. I was used to B to C, which is our, the business to a customer. Which is harder in a sense of it’s pure selling, but there’s certain things and rules and regulations that you learn and contracts in a business to business environment that are not relevant to customers. 

So all of a sudden you have to learn all this. Now that is where I thought I was, I knew, let me rephrase that, I knew that I was the best salesman around pretty much. Like everyone said it to me, I was getting external validation. I knew I was convincing people that were like, yeah, sell me, man. I’m a top sales rep at this company, you can’t convince me to get a timeshare. And then 20 minutes later, he’s like, Oh my God, man. Let me reference you to my boss, you just convinced me. He’s like, you’re good. And that’s so validating. 

And I knew that I knew what I was doing, it was down to a science. That’s kind of scary, by the way, that you can figure out people. Cause it really is human psychology and social skills and body language and it’s repeatable. 

But then you get to business to business. And I actually took a step back, because I knew I had skipped a lot of steps. I got in through my connection with my boss and my pure sales skills, but I had no product knowledge in this medical industry. And I had no idea about the business to business rules and workflows and process. Like what, now I have to go like knocking on doors or calling people or emailing customers? And like, it was different before, because I had access to people that were walking by. You have to stop them as they’re walking by. Which is harder, but it’s a completely different game. So most people might be like, Oh, well, I got the job, I’m ready. 

Stephani: There’s definitely a big learning curve there. You definitely had a lot to learn. Tell us more about that process and what you learned about skipping steps from that.

Fabian: I learned that even if you are that confident, sometimes you got to take a step back and just be like, time to learn from others. So I zipped it. I was basically the silent protagonist that didn’t say anything but observed, during training class, everything. Like, I mean, I’m sure eventually this guy’s gonna watch it. But, uh, one of the guys that was in the training class, like he was giving me like random advice during our training class. I’m like, okay, whatever, man, I know everything you’re talking about, I could smoke you. But I just was listening. Like, well, what’s the process? Then I took a hundred pages of notes and everyone made fun of me for taking notes and all this stuff.

And I remember, I knew it was gonna probably about six months to learn the product, to learn the industry, to learn the business to business rules. And every one-on-one with my boss, I was like, well, I just asked him questions. Well, how about this? How about this? Give me an example. How did you do it? How did you do this? How did you do this? 

Every rep I asked, I would ask them that, I’m like, okay. And I started comparing notes and seeing how, what each person did. And I’m like, okay, that has clearly worked. That, oh, nope, don’t do that, that doesn’t resonate with my personality. About a year and a half later, when I made it to president’s club or when I sold that much to qualify for it, and one of the reps that was in that training class was like, dude, what, how?

I always knew I was gonna be there. He, he couldn’t understand it because I wasn’t bragging in the classes, going back to our previous episode. Like I wasn’t telling everyone about my skill set or who I am. I was just taking notes and learning. A lot of the stuff I already knew, but I’m like, okay, it’s confirming my knowledge, but I was improving.

So this guy already had like 15 years of experience doing business to business sales and in the same timeframe, where was he at? And where was I at? He’s like, how did you do it? What was your secret? What was your trick? Did you have like a secret thing and I’m like… I just made connections internally. There’s a lot more to it, but they couldn’t comprehend. I put in the work, I learned, every day. That’s how it’s done. 

Stephani: That’s a perfect example. And thank you for sharing that example, because we love your examples and your stories. 

Fabian: Yeah. I do want to talk about a few things and there are stories related to them, but they’re relevant to this topic. It’s going to be obviously a little longer of an episode because of this. I want to talk about a topic that really resonated with me regarding always improving. It’s just being aware that you can think differently. And it kind of happened because I started thinking, or because I always started growing and started learning and wanting to be more than what I am, going on this, like, self-improvement journey.

It goes back to what I said about access to knowledge. I wasn’t even aware the world worked a certain way before. And really what I’m talking about here, and I love you guys by the way, just saying that straight up, parents, culture, you can disagree with them. Friends, you can disagree with them and be different and embrace you. And that’s okay. 

Just to give you an extreme example of that, just think about North Korea. There’s limit to the access of information that the population has. They censored the media, they prevent internet access, et cetera, et cetera. And who knows what other stories and how much of it is even true. But most people don’t know everything that’s going on outside the world because the government prevents them from knowing what’s going on outside the world. 

So now, if you grew up a certain way, if you were exposed to a culture that is very traditional, Mexicans, and your friend group is all like, yes men. And you’re just getting the same knowledge and the same viewpoints and like, this is how you have to be. You start believing that you have to be that way and you can’t be different. You can’t think differently. You have to impress when you host people. When you bring people over, you have to be like, perfect. And all this stuff, oh you can’t say that, what would the neighbors think? Like, that’s the kind of knowledge and information that was constantly like injected into my brain growing up. 

Culture, parents, friends, all that stuff, nothing wrong with it. It’s just who they are and what they were and how they grew up.

Stephani: Did it always resonate with you though? Or did you, was there a point where it resonated with you and then all of a sudden you were like, wait. But that’s not me. 

Fabian: I’ll just give a quick example, I, sorry, mom. But I remember my mom once got mad at me that, we were hosting some, like, friends and family, and I moved some of the pillows because I was laying there. And like, our dog jumped up and she was like, Oh my God, I just fixed and organized all of them. What are you doing? They’re coming soon. I’m like, like really, we’re freaking out over some pillows? Like it just, I couldn’t understand that, if they’re going to freak out over the fact that this pillow is not like in this position. I just couldn’t get that at that point already, but I’m like, okay, yeah, I guess. And then I fixed the pillow and there we were. 

 Then I started, this is where as I got older and I started living by myself, and another point that I want to bring up is- 

Stephani: You just didn’t have pillows. And that solved that issue.

Fabian: It did, it did. 

But it’s leaving your hometown. Leaving your safety net. Going somewhere else, where all of a sudden, you’re not only exposed to that one viewpoint, that one perspective. And it’s like, wait a minute, I can act differently? I can be different? I can think differently and that’s okay? And I’m not implying that, like, I got whipped or beat or punished. I didn’t, but it’s just, that was the one viewpoint, that was the way you lived, that was the right thing to do. 

Stephani: And that’s what you saw growing up. You have a tendency, everyone, not just you, but people have a tendency to imitate how they see things. 

Fabian: Yep. Yep. It was really surprising to me when I started going, especially really on this ABI journey. The self-improvement journey of reading, lots of books, talking to many different people from so many different backgrounds and that had success, some that didn’t have success, listening to videos, motivational speeches, et cetera, et cetera, Ted talks. So much, just getting so much information. I’m like, wait, you can actually question. And this is going to be crazy because most people might’ve already realized this, but literally I didn’t. I didn’t realize you could actually like, basically almost say no to the way you were raised, like what your culture, expectation was and your parents’ expectations was. I’m like, well, I can’t disappoint them. I have to do this because this is what my parents and my Mexican culture and the German culture expects. I could do that? I’m like, I could actually do that and things are going to be okay? 

Just that access, that exposure to new information, new knowledge was like a light bulb went off. I’m like, Oh my goodness. I can actually just be me. And like, I’m not gonna, I don’t know, get punished or something. Like, I don’t even know how to phrase it. It was just such a crazy moment to experience.  It was the game-changer, like that access of going on this journey of just learning more about how the world works and information and being like, Wait, Whoa. Oh my goodness. 

And it really, it makes me feel for the people that just don’t have access to more information and knowledge. And the reason why I say that is because I used to, again, work at the medical software sales job, and I would go to rural areas and I would go to not so rural areas. And you go to the rural areas and just, I would walk through there and seem like an alien people would be like, Whoa, what are you? And that just blew my mind that we’re all living in the same world, but that could happen. And it’s just, they just have the same friend group. They all live in the same spot. They’re, the best jobs are X, Y, Z business, that have been around for 80 years. And that’s it, like that’s their circle. 

Stephani: Yeah. It’s almost like, uh, when you move to a new place, you’re getting new perspectives on ways to live, ways to, things to do, et cetera. It’s basically just gaining new perspective from what you’re used to seeing and hearing and living every day. 

Fabian: Exactly and I mean, I was lucky that I already had a lot of the seeds planted at a young age because of the fact that we traveled and moved so much growing up because of my dad’s work. You know, living in third world countries and six countries, different countries, you start seeing commonalities, you start seeing differences.

It gave me already the motivation and the strength to like view different perspectives. I mean, not to sound too elitist, but I remember growing up, sometimes in the U.S. and the, like, for example, in Mexico or in Ecuador, kids would be saying something I’m like, you don’t know anything, man. Like, that’s not how the world works and I’m like a 13 year old kid and I’m thinking that about some other kid, you know? 

But that’s just crazy because that is what is access to knowledge. And that’s why I say like the people who are not always learning, not always improving, it’s you are literally playing on a different playing field. Like, there’s so many people that are up here and you’re down here. And there’s nothing wrong with that. But as long as you’re willing to put in the work and effort down the road to keep growing.  I would think most people want to know how the world really is rather than just living in their own little cocoon or shell.

Stephani: But I think a lot of people just get complacent and they feel comfortable on that plane, so they just stay there. And I mean, I can say that I’ve felt that in my life, so I’m sure that a lot of other people find that as well. And I know that we’ve talked about it a lot, but it’s nice to hear that being told to me that, you know, there are other things out there. There’s other perspectives, there’s other, uh, jobs there’s, you know, a lot more out there. So gather as much as you can in and see what you want, where you want to be, what you want to do. And don’t just keep doing the same thing every single day, just because you’re comfortable with that.

Fabian: Yup. And I want to keep repeating this because obviously this is a pretty intense view on yourself and the world. It’s definitely gonna rattle some people when they are like, well, why are you force people to change it? It’s not, if you are happy, like if you wake up satisfied, you are, you’re confident. You feel good about where you’re at in life. And you feel satisfied and proud with what you’re doing every day, you don’t need to. 

 It’s not something that everyone needs to do, but it’s something that I highly recommend everyone needs to do. Because yes, there might be a dark period after you start going down that journey where you realize, Oh my God, everything I knew is almost like a lie. There’s so much more out there. That’s pretty hard when, I mean not to get into like any, like old-school medieval religious debates or like when certain countries went and conquered and, um, imperialize other places. But it’s like, Whoa, we know nothing. It’s a culture shock. It’s almost like an identity crisis.

So again, not everyone needs to do this, but I find that if you are willing to do it, most people do want more in life. And you can get more, it’s just going to be maybe a one year of struggle and hard work, but is that worth it for another 70 years of amazingness? I say, yes. 

Stephani: Well, I think that’s a great lesson that if you want more, you can get more. Just that sentence. If you want more, you can get more 

Fabian: a hundred percent. 

Stephani: So I think that everyone just needs to remember that and just figure out what, you know, where you need to go, what you need to do in order to get there. I know that is a little difficult, but again, as you said, there might be a dark period in, or a learning curve, et cetera in trying to chase after your goal, but it is obtainable.

Fabian: Yeah. One of the key things I would say to starting that process is giving yourself permission to change and permission to grow. Cause I did not know that I could change that much. I mean, I think part of the problem is that you surround yourself again, going back to like your friend group, and it’s kind of like your identity. You, you kind of become who you surround yourself with. Your network is your net worth. Right? All those stereotypical sayings. And you almost feel bad leaving them behind. It’s weird, but I mean, I’m sure many people can relate, I’m sure you can relate. But there comes a point where all of a sudden, like after a year or two, you’re still with the same person and they’re exactly the same. And you might be still similar, you’re still interested in whatever that is. Maybe it’s a drinking buddy, but now you’re also doing 10 other things other than just drinking every weekend. Right? And you talk to them and it’s like, Oh, all I want to talk about is the latest beer or the latest tequila. And that’s cool, but let’s talk about that for 30 minutes. And then let’s talk about, you know, what are your thoughts on X, Y, Z, right?  

Stephani: Well, I think that relates back to your story earlier about your gaming community. Like, you know, when you first started that it may have been the shiny new toy that was, Oh, that’s, I’m so excited for this, this is so much fun. And then you start growing and then they, you start veering away from that, or start bringing up other things, et cetera. And then they’re like, well, what, what are you now? You were never like this before. So I think that really ties nicely back to that.

Fabian: Yeah. 

Stephani: That topic.

Fabian: There were people multiple times through my life. I mean again, sometimes it was those gaming people. Sometimes it was just even people that were in successful positions and jobs. And they saw me grow and they’re like, well, you’re not the same person you were a year ago. And I’m like… 

They were doubters. They almost were haters. And to those people, I say, you didn’t know me and most people that’s really what it is. They didn’t know you could do that. I was learning, I was growing. I mean, I’m half your age, why are you saying what I can and can’t do? 

That just, it’s one of the things that, those people don’t listen to them. Do your thing, try it out and see what happens. That’s my advice to that. I have accomplished things that so many people have said, you could never do it. Oh, you should go for this. You should settle for this. I mean, if I listen to people’s advice, I would have never moved to Colorado and got my medical software sales job. 

Stephani: So I think it’s good to listen to what other people have to say. I know that you’ve said this before, listen to what other people have to say, but formulate your own opinion and your own thoughts. Because someone’s, one person’s opinion may not suit you properly or may not be the best, best advice. So definitely listen to multiple people, look up other articles like you were saying and formulate your own thought, opinion, um, plan.

Fabian: Yep. I want to start tying this up to really more of the lesson. There’s been so many lessons today, it’s been an amazing talk. But I want to talk about, it’s okay to be unique. It’s okay to be different. It’s okay not to fit in. And I can say this because I’m the expert at being the weirdo. If you listen to the other shows and the other episodes, you know, growing up and living in so many different places and always being the weird one, the kid that does not “belong”. Or the alien basically. 

It’s like, I would always try to fit in. You know, I would change my thing. Like, how do I want to change how I talk, do I want, et cetera? You know, like, and I again think back to Colorado and how everyone that moves here wants to be a skier, have a golden retriever, a Subaru and drink craft brews even if they never drank in their life.

There’s an okayness to trying to fit in and grow your circle. But at the same time, you need to be you. And that was something that always be improving made me realize. It like opened my eyes to it is that, that’s what really confidence is, is loving yourself and loving your uniqueness and your quirks because that’s what makes you, you. That’s why I’m so confident because I know that I’m different than everyone else. And no one else has the knowledge and the stories and experiences I had growing up. The fact that I can share that and talk about those things, puts me at a level above so many other people. Yeah, I’m weird as heck, compared to so many other people, especially Americans. But that is what makes me amazing.

And that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned from always be improving and learning is that I’m like, Whoa, my uniqueness is actually my strength. My quirks, my different looks, my whatever, the way my voice sounds, my laugh, like all these things that make me, me are actually the things that I should embrace and celebrate, not try to change.

And once you have that perspective, you win 

Stephani: Again, such a valuable lesson, especially for anyone going through a weird phase in their life,  but just really for anyone. I mean, think about musicians. A lot of the really, um, successful ones are the ones that are unique. I mean, think about Lady Gaga. You know, she’s- 

Fabian: Dun, dun, dun, do, dee, dun, dun.

Stephani: I have no idea what song you’re singing, but we’ll go with it. Um, just think about her, all of her crazy looks that she does, and just remember that what is unique and different about you can be your strength because other people embrace them. And when you embrace it, that makes it your strength. 

Fabian: And I think this is something we need to talk about more about in another episode, cause this has already been an amazing, uh, talk and I appreciate you so much for not only embracing it, but the banter. Learning that other people struggle with these same ideas and thoughts was really probably the last lesson that I learned from this increasing my knowledge, in like always learning and improving. I’m like, wait, what, other people are also insecure? Other people haven’t figured it out? Other people are going through the same stuff, it’s not just me? And then like hearing it from other people that are like, you know that you’re like so far ahead of everyone else here? 

Like, especially at the medical software sales job. When I started hearing people say, you know, that you have things more figured out at 28 than a lot of these 40 to 50 year olds? I’m like, what up? And I got 12, 13 years to go still, or more. Think about it, if I’m already at this point at 28, where am I going to be at 40 to 50? And I’m worried and freaking out, and these guys are going through the same stuff?

They’re just better at faking and hiding it. Especially because I mean, there is benefits to it, but there was this big push of, you know, fake it till you make it. So all these people are like secretly struggling, but they don’t show it or tell you. Once you find out that they do, you’re like, Whoa, even people in powerful, “successful”, appear successful positions, they’re going through that stuff. You’re like, wait, it’s okay for me to do that too and that’s really the thing. 

This is a journey, it’s a long adventure. As long as you start changing daily habits, you keep working on yourself, you always strive for more and you start slowly identifying the things that you can improve and work on. That’s the game-changer. 

Stephani: Well, like you said, it is a long adventure because if you are always improving, then it’s literally a lifetime. 

Fabian: Yup. 

Stephani: So, yes, it is a long adventure and the startup may be the hardest part, but just remember that it’s going to pay off if you’re doing it properly and doing it right and doing it your way.

Fabian: Well, before we go, Stephani, what are your thoughts? Like if you applied it almost like to yourself in a very high level, few sentences, or however long you want to be. Like, how do you feel like you could apply this? Because again, like everyone is different. My journey is very different than other people.

Stephani: I mean, just for example, uh, with my, my last job, I had a huge learning curve. I mean, just like you and your medical software sales job. I had never worked in the industry before and it’s, it’s a big learning curve. And I just had to stick in there and remember, I mean, I was there for a very long time, I was there for almost 10 years and there’s just a lot that I personally wanted to, I wanted to grow in that position and I didn’t always feel that way when I first started. Like once I kind of got the hang of things, um, I was like, okay, I’m good.

But then I always felt like  I wanted to continually do more, but it was never like this big push. It was just little steps to learn more and improve, et cetera. But then towards the end of working there, I really wanted, I really wanted more and unfortunately my job couldn’t get me that, so that’s ultimately why I ended up leaving.

But I, I realized, and thanks to you, you helped me realize that I could do more and I could be more.  But unfortunately my job couldn’t give me that. So that’s why I, again, ended up leaving, but I did want, I wanted to strive for more. I wanted to learn more. I wanted to, uh, have more of an impact. 

Fabian: Well, I’ll say that you’ve accomplished all of that and there’s still more to come for both of us.

But my takeaway from that is it has to come from you. You wanted it, you had the work ethic, by the way, does she have the work ethic, and the motivation and you wanted to change your circumstances and you did. And I think that’s the key takeaway that it has to come from you. Other people can give advice, recommendations, but if you don’t want it yourself, it’s never going to happen.

Stephani: Yep. I agree. And I think that deep down, I always really wanted more. Which is why I, throughout my years there, I was continually adding more duties to my job and learning how to do different things, because I did want more. But I just didn’t realize that I wanted so much more than what I was able to get out of that position.

Fabian: That’s so impressive. I’m super proud of you. That’s, it’s a hard thing. It’s a hard thing to want more, to do more. Especially when, for me, it was easy with sales because you got a commission, but when you’re like on hourly or say, or salary, it’s hard to push yourself and self motivate because I had always an extreme, external thing that helped me. So the fact that you were able to do that solo, kudos. 

Stephani: Thank you 

Fabian: Well, I think this has been a bit longer, but it’s been very productive. And it’s something that goes to show you, this is really the foundation of everything that Chaminger: Becoming Xceptional is. Like, #ABI, always be improving. Like every topic that we discuss, previously and in the future, always comes back down to this.

Not only do you want to do this, but you have to start on this journey because you want it. And if you keep thinking about it and you keep learning, you’re that sponge and you pay attention to these things, it’s going to start slowly happening.  Look back every year, every few months, like do a check in, what’s your progress. And realize that whatever it is, that’s okay.

Even if you’re 1% better than you were yesterday. And better is subjective, it’s better for you. Do you think you’re better? That’s all the matters. Don’t listen to anyone else in that regard. If you feel you’re better than you were yesterday, you won. That’s my take on this.

Stephani:  Yeah. There were so many lessons in this episode and I mean, I’m going to be listening back to this episode and I’m going to be like, Oh, there’s a lesson, there’s a lesson, there’s a lesson.

So really there really was so much value in this episode. And it really is what the Chaminger brand is about. Um, again, that ABI, ABL, if you want to: always be learning. Um, but really there just was so much and  I appreciate all of your stories and all of your little gold nuggets that you love to give us. Um, it’s really so, so valuable. 

Fabian: You make it easy.

Stephani:  Well, I just want to remind everyone to #ABI and #BeASponge. We mentioned that earlier, and I think maybe we mentioned it in another episode, but it’s really they’re, they’re great reminders for yourself. And if you do go on some, any type of journey I do, as I mentioned earlier in the episode, it is really valuable when you start documenting that journey, because then you can look back on it later and remember, Oh, this is where I started. Because as you mentioned, it’s really hard to see the change from day to day. But once you go back and look at the beginning, then you can see where you were at the beginning and where you are now. So if you, if that is something that you like to see, I highly recommend documenting it in some way. You know, have like a daily journal or weekly journal or, whatever your journey is. It’s, it is definitely encouraging and valuable to document that throughout the way. 

Fabian: Well, with that, I love that. That’s perfect summary, Stephani.  Thank you so much for listening. We appreciate you. We couldn’t do this without you. So let us know what journey or what project you are working on for self-improvement or always be improving. And if you’re not, have you thought about starting? 

Stephani: And just remember to let us know what you think about this episode and follow the Chaminger brand. There’s a lot more comin’ and we’re coming in hot. 

Fabian: See you next time on My 3 Cents.  

May 4, 2021

Part 2 of Real Talk: Finding your Passion released today. Check out our bloopers!

We are excited to have just released our fourth episode and Part 2 of Real Talk: Finding your Passion today. Second week of us following our release schedule is complete and it feels REALLY GOOD. Obviously still look forward to our livestreams this Thursday and Friday, but we are celebrating each milestone as it happens. Once again, everyone who has been supporting us and checking us out, we appreciate you and could not do it without you! Please like, subscribe and follow us on all our social media as well. Everything helps. Overall though, we are very satisfied with our growth, but there is room for more which is why we are doing a giveaway. Check it out HERE.


Being aware of how your upbringing can shape who you become as an adult and understanding how it could also lead to you discovering a lifelong passion. It may have been a certain childhood experience, someone that left an impression on you, a trauma, and so forth. No matter the circumstance, it’s important to find the lesson. Identify it, analyze it, and view it in a positive light. 

Are you ready to have the real talk with yourself? It is time to listen to someone else start their self-reflection journey and see if you can relate or do the same things. Check out the audio and transcript of our entire episode below. We appreciate you for starting the journey to #BecomingXceptional with us!

Check out our Blooper series today. New episode this Wednesday! Come laugh at our behind-the-scenes.

Listen to Part 2 of Real Talk: Finding your Passion

Real Talk Episode #4: Finding your Passion Part 2
Real Talk Episode #4: Finding your Passion Part 2

And read along – the transcript:

Fabian: Hey guys, my name is Fabian Chagoya.

Alejandro: And I’m Alejandro Chagoya. 

Fabian: And we’re the hosts of Real Talk, a show all about the journey of self-improvement and getting to know oneself in which we discuss the harsh truths related to finding success.

Welcome back to Real Talk by Chaminger. Thank you for joining us as we continue our previous discussion on the journey to Becoming Xceptional, since this is a multi-part episode. If you’ve not watched a previous segment, we highly recommend it for context, but feel free to continue and experience the valuable message delivered in this episode, regardless.

We appreciate you. We hope you enjoy today’s Real Talk.

Alejandro: As you may recall, our father worked in the Mexican foreign service. As part of a role as a diplomat, you do have to rotate to different locations based on needs of the service, based on your skill. They obviously don’t want you to develop too many roots in a single place, because after all you are representing your country as a diplomat. You are not to be entirely focused on the interests of one place. 

So we would, uh, following from Miami, move to Mexico City.  This proved to be a very challenging move for us.  Obviously,  we’re was still very young at the time.  While the first move from Seattle to Miami had some minor trauma, you could say. There’s still stories about me pointing to the sky and say I want to go back to our big house, because I think that two stories in our home in Magnolia, which is suburb of Seattle. As opposed to, uh,  our home in Miami, which is more of a bungalow style, stretched out. Which is actually bigger than the other location, but besides the point. 

While we were in Miami, before we left, we were still in second grade, my sister and I; my brother had yet to start school. We had just barely taken an intro to Spanish course. At one point in that year, they separated the class into those who spoke Spanish would go into one classroom and they would be instructed in Spanish. Those who did not speak Spanish would be moved to a different classroom and would have more of a basic Spanish lesson given to them. 

So we then went from a very rudimentary start to moving to Mexico City and we didn’t speak a lick, well, maybe not lick of Spanish necessarily.  We had that little basic foundation, but it wasn’t enough to have a proper schooling.

 As anyone could tell you, this is going to pose a problem if you have this significant language barrier. How are you supposed to learn in school if it’s mainly going to be in Spanish? I mean, yes, we did end up going to a bilingual school. It was mainly in Spanish and then there was one class that would be taught English. Which was English language for those who will be learning English for the first time.

The students there were, to their credit and the teachers, helpful in trying to help us overcome this significant barrier. But even still, it was a very challenging time for me. This was back in, uh, 1997. 96- 97 and then from 97- 98, the two years we were there in Mexico. It was quite challenging the first year. By the second, we’d already gotten much better.

Fabian: Well, hold on for a second. What was challenging about that first year? Anything that comes to mind that you’re like, Whoa, like that really was such a problem.

Alejandro: Right. I’d say it was just extremely stressful, having to learn a language from almost nothing and to have every class be conducted in that. So it’s not that you’re just learning Spanish grammar and language. You’re learning math in Spanish, you’re learning history and Spanish, you’re learning all these things in Spanish.  The only class you have in English is English.

Not to mention, of course, there was this move. Which as I said, we’d been in Miami for five years; this was a long time. I was uprooted then at a very young age and I had to learn to adapt to a new environment, new culture, new everything from what I had grown used to. And as a result, I felt that I had to adapt in a very strong way. 

One way that it manifests, I should say, is that I sort of closed myself off more from people. That I became more distant, more reserved. And I think on some level it was sort of like a fear of loss, that if you got too close to people, like friends, then that well, that you’d lose them. That was temporary. I think this was sort of like a defense mechanism that I ended up employing as a young child, not overly consciously, but I did. 

As a result, I know that I ended up drifting to a more serious outlook.  That’s sort of remained to this day, a little changed and more relaxed as Fabian has said. But, definitely I felt that move was a pivotal change in my outlook and my demeanor

Fabian: So you’re telling me that you moving to Mexico, experiencing major loss for the first time. So I assume you started building up habits, routine, a friend group, uh, you know, complacency almost, in Florida. You knew what to expect, you knew what was coming, you knew what shows you were going to watch, you knew the language, you knew, uh, everything and then you moved to Mexico.

 Do you feel like a lot of these like defense mechanisms actually stemmed from, what you were saying, is like this fear of perfectionism, this fear of trying something new, this almost sense of unworthiness that you were already talking about? And now you move to Mexico and school was like this key to everything about your identity and your self worth and your confidence. And now you’re there and it’s like, Hey, you got to learn in another language and that makes it 50 million times more difficult and it takes a while to ramp up and get there.

So now it’s like, Hey, you’re not there. All of a sudden you’re not as good, other people might be better. I mean, of course they’re gonna be better at speaking the language. So it’s like, Oh, Hey, where’s my worthiness? Do you feel like all that happened because of the move and that all those things were actually effects of it? Or am I putting more to it than it actually is?

Alejandro: Well on one hand, I think you might be giving a little too much credit. I think you have actually brought up an interesting thought I hadn’t really considered on the matter about the unworthiness. 

One thing I did forget to mention earlier was that when we moved, because it would be a challenge academically,  my parents came to my sister and I and they said, Hey, because of this challenge, we think maybe it would be a good idea for you to repeat second grade. And you know, I never thought of it that way. I mean, at the time I thought, okay, it makes sense; so we went with it. But for someone, uh, academically-minded as I was, I could certainly see, now that you brought it up, that maybe that did have some sort of impact on my mind there.  

Maybe the expectation would be higher.  Oh I’ve already done this, some of this stuff already, and I should know more than the other kids. I was then kind of older. I was kind of used to them being one of the older kids for the longest time as a result of this change.

So in some ways maybe I was a little wiser than some of them later on in life, but that’s moving to another point. But yeah, I think it’s an interesting thing. I never considered it until now, but maybe that did play some small role in it.

Fabian: I would say it plays a lot larger role than you’re saying. And the only reason why I can say that is because I know that I had gone to, to school in Mexico for the first time. I was in this kindergarten and I didn’t know Spanish either. And I just found a way to survive, but I quickly realized that the first school that my parents put me in was quite mediocre. To be honest, it was terrible. It was horrible. But it was something that my dad didn’t know better, my mom didn’t know better. They had just moved there. They kind of relied on word of mouth from family, friends. I mean, you kind of trust what other people say. They were talking from their experiences 10, 15, 20 years ago. 

I mean, let’s think about where the world was 20 years ago to where it is today. Right? Any advice you give 20 years ago, doesn’t matter anymore, because it’s a completely different world. I mean, all we have to think about is Coronavirus. Any advice you gave in the business world, for example, last year is irrelevant today. 

They took their words, I went into this weird kindergarten, I didn’t learn anything. I did get some Spanish exposure, but it was honestly terrible. And you know looking back, I really didn’t know what was going on. And I was a crazy kid and we’ll get, can get more into those stories. All I know is I volunteered to do a play in Spanish for the Three Kings and Christmas, and I didn’t even know really Spanish, but some how I volunteered and did it. Maybe that’s proof as to why I do what I do today, but it was already a sign. 

But the long story short is that we changed from that school to another school. And this was a private school, it was a much more elite school. There was like entrance exam and they have to interview you with the principal and all this stuff. 

And I went there and obviously it was already a few months in, so I had to do a lot of catch-up work and I have to learn a language and that place was elite, their curriculum was very advanced. So kind of what I was going at is so yes, you did repeat a year, but it’s a completely different school system, it’s a completely different expectation.

My finding is, and we’ll keep going back to this as we talk about the rest of our story and as we traveled the world, but this second school, the second kindergarten was the elite. Like the stuff that I was learning there was like if I was in third grade compared to this kindergarten around the block.

So I’m curious to hear how like that was. Yes, you did repeat a year, which is crazy, but were you learning the same things? I mean, it’s hard to remember now, but I feel like you, from the sounds of it again, you were always such, so harsh on yourself. You probably were judging yourself unfairly because one, learning it in a different language.

Like if right now you asked me to learn, um, sales or public speaking in German, that’d be a lot more challenging for me, and I know some German, than it is in English. Like it’s not even comparable, but you were trying to compare it, because again, that’s all you knew. So, do you feel like there’s a piece of that? That yes, you did repeat a year, but you went into it with these unrealistic expectations and demands for yourself.

Alejandro: Yeah. Yeah. I think I do recall. There were some times where I was upset that I wasn’t living up to my expectation. I do remember once crying about some bad grade I got. And I was just completely down on myself, trash talking myself. I don’t know how, I think I suspect it was one of our parents mentioned it to the teacher and the teacher even mentioned it to the class. And it’s like, look at this guy here, he’s doing good. And he barely, he’s still learning the language and he was trashing himself. So I expect that you should be doing better too. And that I had nothing to feel bad about. 

That’s a good point there. I hadn’t even remembered that until you brought it up just now, but I think that, that is actually very interesting point.

Fabian: Well I’m glad that you agree that is an interesting point. The piece that I want to really focus on is, again, going back to the theme of the show. Is viewing it differently, viewing it from another perspective, hearing it from almost like a third party. Like this is your first time really learning Spanish on a completely different level.

It’s like Americans can relate, you learn Spanish or French or German in school- you’re just learning grammar. Go to the actual country or watch a show without subtitles, good luck kiddos. Right?  They’re going to get destroyed. It’s not even fair and they took it for years. 

So now you moved there. All you were exposed to really was English and some brief Spanish from my dad and my aunts and grandparents. But it’s completely different when you actually are completely immersed in it. 

 My question to you is: if you had to view it now and think like, what were the benefits that you got from that? Do you feel like it taught you the ability to adapt? Do you feel like it made you realize that, Hey, like don’t sweat the small stuff? Or the contrary, did it make you fear the unknown? Did it make you more hesitant to try new things? 

For example, I view it as that is such an insane experience. You had something that most people will never have in their lives. Being thrown into the deep end of the pool and having to swim literally by yourself and figure it out and figure it out you did.  I’m curious to hear what you feel like the good pieces of that were. 

I mean, I was just kindergarten and I learned the language. I learned so much more because the curriculum is so advanced and deep down, it really taught me adaptability at such a young age. Yes. It made me more reserved as well, but it gave me, it hardened my shell. 

So I’m kind of curious to see, now that you can think back about it. Were there any like lessons or valuable experiences that you got from that?

Alejandro: Oh, yes, yes, certainly. I agree with you. The language skills, to this day, have served me well and the curriculum was indeed more advanced over there. I learned a lot that I would end up touching upon later on. We did move back to the U.S. some years later and I felt like my time in Mexico  had actually given me a leg up, from what I had learned. Not to mention just the very strict level of education that they were working with. I felt like it made a better student as well. 

Because of the nature of the move and everything, we had to adapt, I had to grow as a person. So I certainly would agree that those were positive aspects there. That I had to improve upon myself to carry forward to meet the challenge.

Fabian: Did you think about any of the positives at that time? Let’s be real. Did you? Or was it mostly a negative mindset. Uh! I lost my friends now I have to wear a uniform to school every day. They’re super strict. I’m not the best student necessarily right away. Is that kind of how you viewed it as a child?

Alejandro: Yeah. I remember the story that my mom said how I once said we were learning, I think about the Mexican constitution and rights. And I said, as a kid, we don’t have any rights, we just have obligations

Fabian: Whoa

Alejandro: I mean, yes and no. I remember referring that period of years, I mentioned from 96 to 98, as a sort of like my lost years for the longest time.

But I do recognize, there were a lot of things that definitely benefited me, no doubt. But I just said it was a trial by fire. Just because of the challenge to overcome so much in that short time. Like you said, thrown into the deep end. So there was a lot of, uh, emotional turmoil you could say. I can’t deny that there were a lot of positives to come from it.

Fabian: It’s hard to realize that at that time. That’s really the goal of this. Yes, we’re recounting the story and we’re doing a much more deeper analysis than most people do. But when you realize that, like, Whoa, yeah, there was some bad times and it was rough and I worked my butt off and I suffered and et cetera, et cetera.

But, you know, there’s benefits. We got to live in another country, we got to experience even let’s think about the culture, like learn the traditions. We were there with our Mexican side of the family, we got to form a relationship with them, we got to have different foods. Yes. Our mom always stayed true to the culture and the tradition and made very traditional Mexican and German foods no matter where we were at, but now we were constantly exposed to that. 

Just different ways of buying things. We didn’t have access to the same stores; especially because you couldn’t do online shopping at that time. So it really was a culture shock as well. And as a kid, when you wanted your newest toys and the gadgets and the advertisements are different, and the TV shows are different. There’s all these other aspects of it that I feel like when you really look at it, you’re like, Whoa. It gave you so much more perspective that most children, especially in the U.S. never get. And let’s be real, the majority, if they do get it, they get it when they’re in college, because daddy paid for his little princess to go on a mission trip to Honduras. But she’s staying in a five-star resort while she’s going to build a house, you know? Like that’s their exposure. Sorry guys. I’m not trying to be like rude here, but that’s their exposure of a third world country. And there is some truth that that is still a great experience. It’s not the same as living it. What are your thoughts on that?

Alejandro: We were immersed in the culture, unlike someone who just had a, a passing reference to it really.  Like you said, the trip to, to help out some people then to pat yourself on the back and then go home is very different than living there. Among the people, interacting with them daily, being exposed to the culture.

And I mean, I said they were lost years. But there were certainly a lot of fond memories. Like you said, we were finally able to connect properly with family there that we weren’t able to speak the language. There are actually a number of shows and things from that time that I’m still a super fan of to this day. Even, uh, like one of the Mexican Spanish dub of some shows, as a result. 

I cannot stress how much one really benefited just this moving around. Yes, there’s the challenge of adapting to new places. But I mean, just being exposed to so many new things is really a gift that not many people have. And it does really change your outlook and how you view things.

Fabian: That’s the very summarized version of Mexico. It was an interesting time. It forced all of us to learn a lot, to grow a lot, but it also gave us new perspective. And growing up, Mexico or Germany were kind of the vacation spots that we would go to that we’d alternate. 

So when we were living there, we didn’t really have to travel to Mexico anymore. So it opened up new opportunities, or to visit more so our German side of the family. But like usual my dad wasn’t going to be stuck in one place for long. So where did we go next Alejandro? 

Alejandro: Right. Interesting story because it relates to my health issue at the time, I did have asthma at a young age. It disappeared over the years, which is something that does happen for some asthmatics. But as a result of the pollution in Mexico city, it was bad for my lungs, as you can imagine. So my dad did request a transfer for health reasons for his son, being me. So we ended up moving to Denver, to Colorado or specifically, Littleton. 

Fabian: What up Colorado?

Alejandro: That’s right.

We really enjoyed our time in Colorado, four years it wound up being and school was great. As I said before, our time in Mexico, I think, really made us better students. We learned quite a lot. So I think that was quite a boon for us while we were there. And we were, all of us, overachievers academically and then as well as in some extracurriculars.

 I remember my brother played a starring role in the Scottish play after the lead had to dropout, because of an accident. Which probably may have been invoked from the curse. I was also in the Shakespeare bowl myself that year, as I recall. 

Fabian: I just want to pause and say that he’s definitely jumping around, but that happens when we’re talking. Uh, I was the lead in the play Macbeth because I don’t think most people will understand what the Scottish play means. I played Macbeth in the, it was the Shakespeare event that they hosted in downtown Colorado, in Denver. I mean, as proof in Mexico, I like doing plays apparently and being the lead role. So I guess public speaking was always in my blood and DNA. Anyway, continue Alejandro 

Alejandro: Yeah. I feel like the, the years we were there, we were very close as a family. We went together to a lot of places, getting to know Colorado. We really bonded I feel, as a family in those years there. 

Unfortunately the timing in Colorado was marked by some tragedy in 1999, I believe it was. Where we were living was relatively close to the Columbine high school that had the infamous shooting.  I recall very vividly being at recess in elementary school at the time and suddenly we were all called in and we’re basically under, under a pseudo lockdown. There weren’t really any measures at the time in place for that.  

I remember my mother telling us this afterwards, how she was at the store and everyone’s looking at the TVs and wondering what’s going on. It was something truly, truly horrific and certainly changed how things were being seen at the time. A lot of changes, of course, to the school system as well, as I’m sure you know all too well, Fab.

Fabian: Well, before we talk about how everything else was changed and affected. I think one of the things that I want you to start working on is when you tell stories and when you are sharing these experiences, I want you to share how you felt. The things that impacted you, how you change, how that. Because it’s something that a lot of people do, they kind of do it in a very overview, uh, way of telling it. 

 It’s almost like we were raised in such a way, like this is just in general the world, to not share our perspective, or our mindset, or our view on something, because it’s almost like bragging or selfish. But I think there’s a lot right now when we’re doing Real Talk to gain from that. 

So for example, I can relate that I remember I don’t know exactly where I was when I got the news, but I know I was at school as well. And they pulled us aside and, you know, they’re talking to us about it. And to be real with you, I didn’t really understand the impact of it right away. I think afterwards, when I started talking to friends and hearing the news in the next days,  I remember I definitely was worried that some people would just like break in through our back door. And like hop over our fence and come in with guns or stuff like that, because we were so close to where the school was. But I mean, that’s just kind of where my head went. 

But I wasn’t truly like afraid of anything at school. I think the other people being so  affected by it, because most people in my class and the teachers were terrified. They were acting like if hell had just arrived at their doorstep; it was insane to see everyone else. I was just kind of like, should I be more afraid? So that was kind of how I took it. I was curious to hear how you felt in that moment, if you really remember.

 Alejandro: I don’t remember too well, but I think I wasn’t too dissimilar, honestly. I don’t think I recall being that afraid myself. I guess I did feel some degree of sadness for the people who lost their life. But I guess in some way, there was also that disconnect as well, because it’s, in a way, kind of surreal that we had something like this, some traumatic event happening so close by. 

Oftentimes you hear these things on the news and they’re distant, but this time this was something up close and personal that was, was horrific and real and near. Sometimes it’s hard to sort of reconcile these facts, that this is happening. And I think that’s probably where I was with that. That it was some sort of surreal experience that some, some terrible thing that  happened there.

Fabian: Do you feel like it impacted you? Like it changed the way you view things or reacted to things? Because I will say on my end, I really don’t think so. There’s a few events that a lot of people would be like, Oh my Go. Like for most Americans, they would say 9/11, it changed my life. And  maybe it’s because of how we lived and travel and all this stuff, but even though we were so close to Columbine, and it was a very sad and dramatic event, I will say that it didn’t really change who I was. It didn’t make me fearful, it didn’t make me worried. It just made me, I guess, more aware, it opened my eyes to even a little bit more of stuff, but curious how you feel about that.

Alejandro: I agree actually. I don’t think that Columbine, as tragic as it was, I don’t think it really, uh, changed how I was as a person. I think I do agree with you that 9/11 was the one that really had a dramatic impact on my life. That I still vividly recall our mother waking us up in the morning. I was in middle school at the time, uh, seventh grade. She told us that, uh, a plane had hit one of the world trade centers. 

I come down to breakfast, we’re watching the news. I’m there watching live TV wondering what was the reason for this crash. And then suddenly I see out of the corner of my eye, across the screen, come the second plane and hits the trade center. And I’m like, wow, I’m watching this live, this thing happening. Then going to school, everyone there in homeroom watching, wrapped attention to the TV. Then going to the next class, again, watching as people are jumping out of the building. Then hearing the news later on in the day of how one of the towers collapsed.

 It radically changed the school curriculum. We devoted a lot of focus, especially in history and world events, regarding this. And I feel like it really shaped the course of my life in becoming a lot more focused on what was happening in the world, of taking an interest in these things. I would definitely say that the reason I have the degree I have, is in no small part because of the events of that day.

Fabian: Well, that is quite a bold statement, but I love that you said that. To think that an event that’s completely out of control, out of your control, shaped your path, your interests, your passions  so much. And that’s crazy to think about and I’m sure it happened to a lot of people. 

I know that all these events definitely changed things. I mean, it changed how the schools reacted. I just remember all the lockdowns and the drills that never happened before already after Columbine, but then you have 9/11, too. It just kept compounding and no one- there was almost like this new sense of fear. And I think it’s very fascinating to me how each event impacts someone differently, because for me, it didn’t really impact my interest in news. I mean, we were always very culturally aware because of my dad’s work and overhearing the things that he talked about.

For me, that event changed- it inconvenienced me, in a way, because we traveled so much. So it completely modified the situations at airports. And we would travel at least once a year, if not more. And now all of a sudden it’s like every single person is being questioned. And now you joked around with friends, insensitively, but there was even movies that joked about it, too. It was like, don’t you say the word bomb. You know, it was like, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb; I forget what movie had that, but it completely changed the world. 

But for me it wasn’t really to that serious level, it was just more so like, how did it affect me personally? I knew the world around me had changed, but I just viewed it still, almost selfishly. And I think that’s almost a part of age difference. Obviously, I was younger than you. I was maybe eight, nine, 10. I forget how old I was at that point. 10, I was turning 10 so it was very different for me versus you’re now already a teenager and you start to view the world differently, a little more seriously.  

I find that absolutely fascinating that something like that could alter your interest and path. But I think that’s super interesting because there is so much there and it’s very sad that an event like that happened.  

It really goes to show you how every era is defined by certain things. And our Denver experience was really defined by, we got close to our family, we really got to learn and master the English language. Which I think I want you to share a little bit more about. We got to experience so many new and different things. 

But I feel like even though we had these dark moments, Columbine, um, 9/11, I feel like this was really an opportunity where, despite all that, we thrived. This was the first time where all of us had this success. And we had mastered the English language, despite coming in as “foreigners”. Which, uh, we can tell the story about when we first got to Kaiser Elementary School, we were put into an ESL class purely because of our last name, Chagoya.  I mean, put that out on social media today and that school is going to go under. The fact that they didn’t even test to see if we could speak English. 

Alejandro: It’s worth noting, it wasn’t the school itself. It was actually the school district that sent somebody to interview, not just us, but a number of other students. So we had someone with an Asian last name, a Hispanic last name; we had a number of other students. And I should point out that every one of those students were among the top of their class. And especially in English. So just, just to take that into consideration here.

Fabian: So let’s talk about that piece though. And then I want you to kind of summarize Colorado and then we’ll move on. There’s a lot that can be talked about, it was great experience. Four years, very memorable part of our lives.  

I just think it’s interesting that you said that foreigners were kind of put in a different bucket and category yet, they all were doing the best. There’s something to be said about having a chip on your shoulder and being underestimated and having to prove yourself.  We came in and we came in guns blazing and then there’s proof in the pudding.  We kicked ass while we were there and we succeeded and excelled in so many different environments and participated in so many different things . I just remember being like the best soccer player at school, because  U.S. soccer was not even a thing at that time in schools, like at an elementary school. So stuff like that was really cool. 

Kind of curious to hear your takeaways from the four years in Colorado, the benefits, the cons, lessons, and anything else that you wanted to share. Then we can transition to what happened next and that’ll be our cliffhanger for the episode.

Alejandro: I agree with you, I feel like we definitely flourished in Colorado.  I felt that I  really had grown quite a bit. I had a friend group that I liked. I don’t want to say I was popular per se, but I felt like  I had accomplished quite a bit.  I was settling quite nicely, which of course would be cut off then  with yet another move afterwards which always did have a rather abrupt way of transitioning.  

At this point we were also getting, I should say at least, I was starting to get used to this. It was reality of our life; it’s like, eh okay, yet another move.  Always being conscious that long-term plans might have to be reassessed because of the nature of that lifestyle that we had. Often there was, with that caveat, yes, we’ll do this, but just in case this thing might come up that  might stop it from happening. So that was always something I think that was conscious in my mind. Maybe that might also have been, in some ways, a limiting belief now that I think about it; that might’ve been a con in a way.

I definitely feel like there was a lot that allowed us to grow both, uh, as students, as people. And I feel that it was a really good time for us.

We came from Mexico. There was always that concern that would our English not be up to par, but I especially proved myself more than capable. English was one of my best classes.  I think, especially for myself at that point, I had reached my academic high point. Which would make things a little later a little interesting, as I put it before when things didn’t turn out quite so well.

I would also like to add one other point that I think holds a lot of relevance for us here, regarding 9/11. That after the events of that day, I remember thinking to myself, when would it be okay to be happy again? When would it be okay to smile? I remember that if something came up and say, I found something funny and I laughed, or I smiled. Then the feeling just brought back the memories of what had happened. I’m like, well it doesn’t feel right to be happy right now. There’s this horrible tragedy that happened. I shouldn’t, I have no reason to be happy if there was so much suffering. 

I think this is important lesson I learned, even as a youngster at the time, a teenager. Tragedy happens all the time and we can’t let it dominate us. We have to move on, you have to move forward. In a way, we essentially move on by being happy, by celebrating these good things in life, because there’s so many horrible things out there. By celebrating the good, by defending it, by protecting it, by doing what is right, we are actually doing a service towards all those who may have lost their lives, who have suffered by progressing for. We have to always try to improve in that way. And I think that’s a valuable lesson that I learned as a result.

Fabian:  I love that you said that. It’s fascinating to think that you already were thinking those thoughts as a kid still, you were so young. I mean, I feel like the recurring theme with you in all these episodes, but you were putting this harshness on you. And I mean, why can’t you be happy because everything around you is going to hell? It’s something that is crazy to think about, but you know so many people think that. It’s an important lesson that those things don’t necessarily  have to be mutually exclusive. Just because something bad happened around you doesn’t mean that you can’t be happy, it doesn’t mean that you are dismissing it or disrespecting it. It just means that you’re living your life and it’s already been impacted, but you got to live it still. And I think that’s something that everyone can listen to and learn from. 

But I find it super interesting that you had this lesson, but at the same time, in the last episode, we talked about your issues of moving on and dwelling. So it goes to show you that it’s not so black and white. That there’s, uh, pieces where you learned that and that you did it and then there’s other things that you couldn’t move on. And you still dwelled and you weren’t able to smile and just be, like, okay. That’s super interesting to me that for some things you could and some things you couldn’t. And it goes to show you that there’s a lot of complexity to every single person and every single situation. 

With that said, it sounds to me like overall, we could define Colorado was a great experience. It was an opportunity for us to really get to know ourselves pretty well. We identified, more so now than ever, with the American culture, with the English language, with this group of people. We were happy, we were thriving, things looked amazing. We could still go to Mexico, we could go to Germany, we could practice our language. Everything was going well. And then a major thing happened. My dad comes to us, I remember he invited us to our kitchen to sit down and be like, Hey, we’re gonna have to move again. And that’s when everything changed. 

And we’re going to stop here because you will find out next episode where we move to and all that came to that. I would be very curious to hear about you Alejandro, but for me, I was excited. But also because it was a new place and new opportunity to do things and figure out a new home and get new furniture and have new experiences. But at the same time, it was like, wait, this is, this is home. This really was home.

And I think, I think that’s going to be one of the themes for next episode. How, how, how, how do you define home? What is home for you? And that’s what we’re going to talk about next episode. So, um, any closing thoughts before we say goodbye to our audience?

Alejandro: Any closing thoughts? These conversations are really just so fascinating, if you really think about it. I mean on one hand you could say, Oh, I’m just talking about my life. What could be so interesting about that, but really these experiences just, uh, not everyone has them. And there are a lot of things that I’m grateful for, especially reflecting upon it now. That we’ve been able to exposed to different cultures, which I think will definitely come up in our next episode. So stay tuned on that. 

And I feel like, I mean so much about the self-reflection here. These are a lot of things that are that I’ve thought about, we’ve discussed, but I mean, like you said, we haven’t really done this deep dive before to this extent.

Then starting to see some of these things in a new light, from a new perspective. And I mean, we’ve talked, but have we really had this real talk like we’re really having now? That’s the thing, that’s the thing. And this is a learning experience as much for you viewers, as it is for us. About, about ourselves here, we haven’t discussed a lot of these things and this is a really interesting and exciting opportunity here that I’m, I’m glad you’re, you’re a part of.

Fabian: Perfect. Well, I appreciate you Alejandro. Thanks for being open. Thanks for sharing your experiences, telling your story. Always super insightful, enlightening, emotional, but at the end of the day, it’s powerful to hear these experiences.  I’m excited that you, the viewers, get to learn about this and hear this with us. Because as my brother said, this is not something that you will just sit down  and talk about when you’re having lunch or dinner.  I mean why not? You should, but it’s just, it’s not how we were raised is not how human culture really is. You don’t have these deep conversations most of the time.

And we’re looking to change that. We’re looking to get people to get to this authenticity, to get comfortable with being vulnerable. So at the end of the day, yeah, it’s kind of scary at first. It feels a little weird. You feel like, Oh, should I say that? But then once you do, it’s rewarding. You start thinking about stuff and you realize that even those not so good times and not so good moments, for example 9/11, had some positive changes in your life. It changed your course, it changed your mindset. 

And that’s really a good takeaway, it really summarizes this episode for me. Is that even in the dark times, in the negatives that there could be a change of path.  This happened, it sucked, but it opened a new road for you. And that, that is powerful. 

So with that said, it’s been a pleasure having you guys.  Please subscribe, follow us, keep commenting. Tell us what you like, what has been going well, what hasn’t.  We love your feedback. We appreciate it because at the end of the day, this is Real Talk. So we dish it out, we got to take it. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time.  I would love to hear some of your guesses on what was the next place that we moved to. Right Alejandro?

Alejandro: That’s right. Should prove interesting.

Fabian: See you guys!